Henry455
Member
Skip Goulet said:
Skip, curious how the 3 speakers were wired to operate with the Director and how the 4 speakers were wired to operate with the PA 200?
Rate the sirens
- Thread starter Wailer
- Start date
Skip, curious how the 3 speakers were wired to operate with the Director and how the 4 speakers were wired to operate with the PA 200?
Henry455 said:
Wow, Henry, that was a loooong time ago! Now on the Directors, there were terminal strips on the back for the speaker hookups. I didn't think to look at the wiring, I was just sooo impressed by how loud it was on the 3 speakers. I know with 2 speakers they had to be parallel, but I'm not sure with the third. As to the PA200, the speakers were direct wire. I'm guess that since there were already existing speakers on the ambulance that they guy wired the left speaker to what had been the left speaker and then the two rights. That would've been simple. As I said, that was a very long time ago: 1976 on the Dodge ambulance (3 speakers) and 1982 on the 4-speaker set up. One ambulance that I still have (although no longer in service) is a GMC Type II Vandura ambulance. It was built in Tulsa, OK and went to a small volunteer dept. N/W of Oklahoma City. It has a pair of CP100 speakers over the cab, powered by a PA150. Now I'm not sure, but I'd bet Wailer can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that PA150 is capable of the full 200 watt output, as it's the forerunner of the PA200. Anyway, just with the two speakers that siren is awesome. You can't stand in front of the van with that siren on! Just bumping the manual button, giving the siren just a very short blast, is absoutely painful. It'll rattle your brain. It's funny how some sirens like that can be so awesome, while others that you might think would be loud, aren't really loud at all!
Wailer said:
As usual, you're right, Wailer. I remember when Lubbock EMS first opened in 1974 they had PA200s on their first trucks. Their first Type I ambulances had big extended bumpers on which a pair of CP100 speakers were mounted. Their next set of trucks came with Whelen sirens and speakers, and they started mounting Qs between the two speakers. An interesting note: Since 1970, my ambulance service was the only one to actively use Q sirens. AID Ambulance was using Directors and PA25 speakers at the time. With the entry of EMS in '74 AID ceased running emergency service but kept their units emergency-equipped. Funny thing: EMS got around to noticing that with our Qs we got through traffic a bit easier than they did with electronic sirens only. Hmmmm!
As I said, I know the PA200s were out as of '74, but I had thought the PA150s were out a bit sooner, and you're right, they did replace the PA15As, not the PA200.
Wailer, I forgot to mention above: If the PA150 is only rated at 100 watts, then someone must've really tinkered with the one I have. As loud as it is pushing the two CP100s on the truck, it's gotta be more than 100 watts. While I may not be up that much anymore on the technical stuff as I once was, I do know the difference in sound output, and this one's much louder than 100 watts.
Wailer said:
I agree with you about the common concept about Qs nowadays being fire engine sirens. Federal sells plenty of them to fire depts., as does Kevin O'Connell with his B&M Super Chiefs.
But in the "old days" a majority of the procar ambulances had Qs (and out west Super Chiefs) primarilly, with the occasional Model 28s, 76s, etc., under the hoods of the hearse/ambulance combinations. All one need do nowadays is to attend one of the many meets put on by the Professional Car Society (PCS) or the Southern California based Professional Cars International (PCI). Of course, these meets admit both hearses and ambulances, but over the past several years the ambulances have seemed to dominate the show field.
One well-known event at the close of PCS' national meet (held in a different location every year) is their light and sound show, which occurs after dark on the Saturday evening that closes the meet. I have participated in two such meets over the years and I guarantee the light and sound show will leave your ears ringing!
Another event which you would enjoy is the American Heroes Airshow and Procar meet held at Hansen Dam in Los Angeles County every summer. Tragically, this summer's meet was cancelled due to a freeway closure right near the Hansen Dam complex. This particular meet combines the forces of PCI, the Crown Firecoach Enthusiasts organization and all L.A. County public service agencies including LA Co. F.D., LA City F.D., LA Coroner's office, LAPD, CHP, etc. All agencies have displays and hand out all sorts of materials, and most have their agency caps and tshirts available
The highlight of the event actually starts the meet. Early on a Saturday morning everyone gathers with their procars, rescue squads, classic ambulances and fire engines at a designated location. From that location this bunch of vehicles makes their "Rollin' to the Rescue" Code 3 parade down the LA freeways with an LAPD escort, with all vehicles running full lights and sirens. The one rule is that all participating vehicles must have working lights and sirens. In 2002 I was able to attend this meet. Lou Farah, who is PCI's president, now has a number of procars and other fire/EMS classics; but at that time he had a 1969 hightop Suburban ambulance built in SoCal by the Stoner Corp. and a Crown Firecoach fire engine. I had the great pleasure of being allowed to drive the Suburban ambulance in the Code 3 parade: and was that an experience.
So, as you said, Wailer, Qs and Super Chiefs are not just for firetrucks. Attend one of these meets and see for yourself, guys!
By the way, this year's national PCS meet was held a few weeks ago, this year in Ohio; and I understand there were a lot of ambulances there. My friend Steve Loftin emailed me some pictures of several ambulances owned by Bob Smith in Ohio. He owns both a funeral home and ambulance service: something you don't see very often anymore. He displayed a single horse-drawn hearse and about 8 ambulances. My favorite was a neat little '56 Ford wagon still ambulance-equipped and a '59 Ford paneltruck ambulance, still well equipped. Anyone who wants to see some of these drop me a PM with your email address!
Black Hoe
Member
The Cadillac Ambulances in the northeast (NY/NJ/CT/Long Island) in the 60's and 70's were either Superior, Wayne Miller Meteor or Hess & Eisenhardt (S&S). The majority of the rigs were equipped with Federal Interceptors or Directors (various series depending upon the model year) using either MM-24 speakers behind the grille or CP-25 speakers mounted atop the high-headroom models. Very few used electro-mechanical sirens and the few that did had a Federal 28 behind the grille. Most high headroom models (the most popular in the northeast) were equipped with 3 front facing Red Solar-Rays and either one or two top mounted Federal Beacon Rays, either the 176, 175, 173, 17 or the 184. The less common low headroom models had 4 Grimes beacons mounted at the corners of the roof. The high-headroom models also had the sign in the front usually denoting the fire department or ambulance company name. They were great rigs back the day and you couldn't beat the comfortable ride!
Black Hoe said:
The first big coach ambulance I ever saw was in Fall River, MA in 1968. We were there for my grandma's funeral (Dad's mom). If you know the area, the Taunton River runs right through Fall River and separates it from Somerset. On the Fall River side right at the bridge between the two cities is a large Italian restaurant, Begoni's, that's been there for many years One of my great uncles took everyone there to eat one night while we were there. While we were eating I heard a Q siren, so I looked out the window, and here came this gorgeous M-M Volunteer all lit up. It had the four-corner Full-Vue lights (the Grimes light you mentioned) and a red 184 in the center rear. The Q had to have been either behind the grille or underhood, as it wasn't visible; but it had to be a Q as it was much too loud to be 28, which as you said, was common on those cars. It had all-red lights; and something else I noticed was the police cars with all blue. That's something you just didn't see down here. In Texas, red is the primary emergency color on all emergency vehicles, but blue is allowed as an auxilliary color in conjunction with the existing red. An interesting note that could generate a thread all to itself is that for some reason the Texas DPS officers a few years ago got it in their heads that blue is reserved for law enforcement in Texas; but it isn't. A friend of mine who is now a retired volunteer fire chief showed up one time at our Ham swapfest with a new LED bar on his pickup, and the LEDs were all red. His previous LED bar was red/blue, so I asked him why he had made a switch, and he explained the problem with the DPS officers. So I put him in touch with the DPS public information office in Austin. They looked up the laws and let him know that there was no prohibition on blue in Texas. He got that in writing, so now they're all back to running red/blue. Politics!!!
Another interesting ambulance I had seen was in 1963,so it actually predates what I said above about 1968. This was in Tucson, AZ and belonged to a large funeral home that still ran ambulances. It was a new '63 M-M ambulance (I'm not sure which model). It had the big red sealed-beam tunnel lights front and rear, with a red 173 beacon on the front center of the roof. This was a lowtop ambulance, but had the sloping front roof. The siren, a B&M Super Chief, was mounted on the right fender. This was a neat unit and I managed to see it run a time or two while I was there.
But one of the ultimate ambulances that I ever saw back then, and eventually got to work out of, was a 1967 long-wheel-based lowtop Pontiac ambulance that was operated by AID Ambulance in Lubbock. This was one of two cars inherited by AID when they first opened on August 1, 1968. What happened is that four funeral homes got together and formed an ambulance corporation to compete with another funeral home that had manged to snag the city contract, but didn't maintain the contract properly. This was in '66 right after the other funeral homes had exited the ambulance service. So by '67 these guys had formed the new corporation and got up and running despite the flack from the city, who favored the contract ambulance co. So when AID opened the started out with two Pontiacs from one funeral home. One was the '67 I mentioned. It was equipped with twin red 174 beacons on the front corners with four DoRay red lollipop lights mounted between the two beacons. And it had a Q mounted on the right fender. I guarantee that this was one sharp light show when you saw it coming. The other Pontiac was a '64 Consort which had a 174 mounted front center with two red lollipops on each side and a Q on the right fender. Both Pontiacs were painted blue over white: the original funeral home's company colors. Another one of the partner funeral homes supplied AID with a '63 Pontiac Consort that had to be put back together, so-to-speak. I had seen it once in its original form. It had a roof mounted Q flanked by a total of six (6) big Dietz lollipop lights, 3 on each side of the siren, and a 174 in the rear. That made for a spectacular display; but in 1966 when the funeral directors started leaving the ambulance business in droves, that Consort was stripped and used as a removal vehicle. Once AID got it, they mounted a 17 front center with four red lollipop lights and a Q-1 siren behind the grille. Now you've by now noticed that I've mentioned a number times in my comments about the use of lollipop lights. The two primary brands used were the DoRays, which had the reflective area around the lenses and the chromed Dietz lights that had visors over the lenses and were expensive. For many years, the lollipops were the "staple" on ambulances, particularly since the DoRays were relatively inexpensive. One of the largest ambulance dealers who also built ambulances in-house was the Gordon K. Allen Co. in Dallas. Their standard ambulance conversion on station wagons (and eventually the lowtop Suburbans) was a roof mounted Q flanked by four DoRay lollipops and a 17 beacon in the rear. They had the option of going with all red on the lollipops or having two red and two blues, which was the most popular option. Once they began building the lowtop Suburbans c. 1967, they also had the option of substituting a Federal Director and a pair of CP25 speakers for the Q. Gordon K. Allen, Sr., opened the short-lived Modular Ambulance Corp., which provided the original Type I ambulances for the Emergency! TV show. MAC's Modulars were the first of their type, as were the Type IIIs they added and a full 54" headroom hightop Suburban. But despite all that, they were gone by the mid-80s. It's interesting to note, Black Hoe, that as popular as the big coaches were up in your area, the station wagons, sedan-deliveries and the short coaches (Consorts, Buick Flxettes, and Olds Sevilles) were the popular ambulances in the Southwest. Go figure! BTW, what kind of car is that that you're showing all lit up. To me it looks like a Charger, but I just wasn't sure. I had a nice old '97 Crown Vic PI that I drove for years that was decently equipped for first response. But I'm now driving a 2002 Saturn L. It has a bit more of a stealth look than the old Vic.
Black Hoe said:
I moved to the city in 1969, and by then there were some ambos with electronic sirens. In 1970, the fire department got its first engines equipped with electronic sirens. While I was growing up in the early 1970s I noticed that fire engines and ambulances with electronic sirens used the wail tone most of the time while the yelp tone was used when they went through intersections controlled by traffic lights. The police usually just used the yelp tone.
The first pro-car ambos I remember seeing were a 1968 Superior/Cadillac combination with a CP25 speaker on the passenger's side fender, a 1969 Superior Consort with an MM24 behind the grille, and a 1972 Superior/Pontiac 54" ambo with a CP25 on the lower roof in front of the sign. All of them had late 1960s era Federal electronic sirens with the low-pitched wail and yelp tones.
The fire engines were Ford C-series trucks with extended cabs and pumper bodies built by Pierre Thibault of Quebec. They had the same type of siren as the ambos.
Wailer said:
The first emergency vehicle here in Midland to have an electronic siren (PA20) was in '63, installed on the fire chief's new car. His previous car had been a '59 Ford sedan, and the only piece of emergency equipment was a 76B doubletone siren mounted underhood. This chief had a "thing" about using warning lights. So when he got the new '63 Ford, all that went on it was the Interceptor. I only saw him run "hot" once in that car, and that was to a plane crash at the Midland International Airport, between Midland and Odessa. Fire, police and ambulances came "out of the woodwork" on the incident. It was first thought that a commercial aircraft had crashed, but it turned out to be an old DC3 private plane with five people on board. But because of the slight error in dispatching, every ambulance from Midland and Odessa responded: four from Midland and six from Odessa. However, only one ambulance transported, as there were only minor injuries. Anyway, I was right on top of the crash site when the plane went down and was immediately on the scene. I helped the crew from the first ambulance in who did all the transporting load up. But it was quite impressive a few minutes later to watch everyone else roll in, as it was a conglomeration of hearing Qs, B&Ms, one WLH, 28s, and the single electronic on the fire chief's car, which he ran only on wail for his entire run.
The first ambulance with an electronic siren came in 1965 when Chapel of the Roses Funeral Home in Odessa replaced their '59 Ford wagon with a '61 Cotner/Bevington Olds Seville ambulance. What they did here was quite interesting and deserves some explanation. They stripped the Ford wagon which had been equipped with a roof-mounted Q, four DoRay lollipops and a 17 beacon. The Olds had come in with a 175D beacon on top and a 76B doubletone siren underhood. The 175 and doubletone came off, and they went on Chapel's '63 Superior Cadillac combination which had not been emergency equipped previously. The owner of the funeral home traded the Q for a used PA15 Director and a pair of CP25 speakers. The 17 beacon off the Ford went to the front center of the Olds roof,and it was flanked by the four DoRay lollipops. Now get this: both lowbeam headlights were removed, and the CP25s were mounted in those sockets. The old conventional dual-filament headlight bulbs went into the highbeam sockets. That was a bit strange, and we all wondered how they got by with it....especially when it came time for the annual inspection sticker! When Rix Funeral Home where I worked exited the ambulance business in mid-1966 I went to work at Chapel and got to go on a few runs in that Oldsmobile. On one call the owner had decided to drive. He ran the siren on wail only for the whole run. I asked him why he hadn't used the yelp, and he said that one of the cops had told him that it wasn't legal. We found out differently, so thereafter, the yelp was used.
In Midland, Thomas Funeral Home's new '67 Pontiac Consort ambulance came with a PA20 Interceptor. It also came with a pair of Superior bullet lights on the front corners and a CJ84 Beacon/Speaker combo slightly behind the bullets in the center of the roof. There was also a pair of Unity doublefaced spotlight. The first time Thomas ran hot in the new Pontiac I happened to be in my car with the C.B. on. Thomas used C.B. Ch. 17 as their "private" channel. They actually thought at one time that no one could hear their conversations, which could be quite humorous at time. So when I heard the police dispatcher say that Thomas was running, I flipped to Ch. 17 to listen. In just a minute I hear Mr. Thomas call his base. You could hear the siren on yelp in the background. His wife dispatched, and would talk in a very slooooow whiny voice. He had asked her to call one of their part time men to meet him at the hospital. He was monitoring and informed them that he was on his way to his other job and couldn't stop. I was just pulling up at the hospital on personal business, so I told Mr. Thomas I would wait outside and help him unload. Please note: These guys regularly ran a one-man ambulance!! So, the ambulance must've passed right in front of their office, because Mrs. Thomas came over the radio and said, "Billy! Is that you making that funny noiiiise?" He said that it was him and asked what she thought. She replied that if it didn't blow them off the road, it'd sure scare them off. If they were still around, no telling how she would react to the newer breed of electronics that are out, especially with the phaser sounds, etc.!!
Can't believe I missed this thread until now. I'm drawn toward things less common than modern FedSig, Whelen, & Code3PSE products. As a die hard MARS lighting aficionado, I've been underwhelmed by their siren offerings.
I am a huge B&M Siren enthusiast. In my small collection of warning equipment, one of my prized possessions is my B&M S8B...it is loud, confident, yet mellow and reassuring...you hear it & know "help is on the way". I love how the SC8 with the trumpet nose makes the sound even more rich, and who doesn't love the Super Chief?
My favorite & most loved siren in my collection is my Federal 76B dual-tone. I really don't think there is a sound more distinctive than the Fed 2-notes, and I don't understand why FedSig discontinued them, they're so attention grabbing. Plus, the long wind-down is incredible.
The one siren I really want is the North American 1136:
I remember the Superior, WI Fire Department had these sirens on their utility van & grass fire rigs when I was a kid in the mid-1970's.
With respect to electronic sirens, modern and throughout the last 15 years, there are none finer in my perspective than the Unitrols. Aggressive wail, choppy yelp, and that crazy hi-lo.
I covet the first-generation Whelen Xecutor sirens, the resonance & tone of those sirens are almost haunting.
One electronic siren I have always liked but never known is whatever the Minneapolis Police Department ran in the 1970's & 1980's...it had a really deep hi-lo tone, I've always assumed that since they had Dietz light bars they utilized a Dietz siren.
I am a huge B&M Siren enthusiast. In my small collection of warning equipment, one of my prized possessions is my B&M S8B...it is loud, confident, yet mellow and reassuring...you hear it & know "help is on the way". I love how the SC8 with the trumpet nose makes the sound even more rich, and who doesn't love the Super Chief?
My favorite & most loved siren in my collection is my Federal 76B dual-tone. I really don't think there is a sound more distinctive than the Fed 2-notes, and I don't understand why FedSig discontinued them, they're so attention grabbing. Plus, the long wind-down is incredible.
The one siren I really want is the North American 1136:
With respect to electronic sirens, modern and throughout the last 15 years, there are none finer in my perspective than the Unitrols. Aggressive wail, choppy yelp, and that crazy hi-lo.
I covet the first-generation Whelen Xecutor sirens, the resonance & tone of those sirens are almost haunting.
One electronic siren I have always liked but never known is whatever the Minneapolis Police Department ran in the 1970's & 1980's...it had a really deep hi-lo tone, I've always assumed that since they had Dietz light bars they utilized a Dietz siren.
Well, I'm surprised you missed this thread, too...it's been up here for some time. I had just about decided that no one was looking anymore.
You're a man after my own heart when it comes to sirens.....especially since you specifically mention the Federal doubletones and the B&M line. I grew up around both of those sirens. For a number of years Ellis Funeral Home here in Midland ran a Federal Model 78B doubletone siren on a couple of their ambulances. The first I just barely remember, because I was so little. It was roof-mounted on their '48 Chevy panel truck ambulance, and was the only warning device on that truck. I have some memories of watching that truck running hot to the hospital, because that rotating Propello-Ray light fascinated me. In 1950 they replaced the panel truck with a '51 Chevy sedan-deliver. The 78 went on the left fender, and two driving lights that were painted red were mounted on the front corners of the roof. In '53 they gave the sedan-delivery to the black funeral home. The guy swiftly removed and threw away the doubletone because "it used too much juice". He replaced it, would you believe, with a VL (the smallest of the entire Federal line). Good news: when Ellis gave away the little Chevy they replaced it with a '54 Ford station wagon. A Model 17 beacon went on top; it had twin red spots and red bumper lights and a nice B&M S8B Siro-Drift on the left fender. I have to tell you: that was the longest rolling siren I've ever seen. In Sept. 1955 on the first day of school a kid got hit on his scooter headed to school, and it occured right behind my house. My dad called the ambulance and we went to check on the boy. Momentarilly we could hear Ellis coming up Main St. When the ambulance turned off main onto Oak the siren began its downward roll. And roll it did! Turns out that the driver was alone. So my dad and another guy helped carry the kid to the ambulance and place him in the front seat. Since the cops hadn't as yet arrived, the driver waited a few minutes, and after almost 10 minutes told my dad to let the cops know he was headed for the E.R. All that time that ol' Siro-Drift kept rolling and rolling. I've never seen another one like it, and I've used B&Ms over the years. I have a CS8B and an S8 at present. I'd really like to have a Super Chief; but even used or refurbished ones are expensive.
I had one of those Pyle/North American sirens a few years ago, and it was very nice. It had the sound of a Sterling Model 20. I understand that Pyle was an independent co. at one time and then eventually bought out by North American. N.A. dropped their entire line of motordriven sirens a few years back, but still make a wicked electronic siren that is very nice. If you've ever seen one, they are push button operated, and the two last buttons to the right (yelp and hi-lo) can be depressed simulatenously, emitting what they call the "riot" sound. Like I said,......Wicked!
You're probably right about the Dietz setup, as they made a very nice, loud....hurt your ears.....electronic siren. The one package deal that Dietz offered back then consisted of a beacon/speaker combo. plus the siren control. Now, this is not to be confused with Federal's nice CJ speaker/light series. What Dietz had was basically their 211 four-lamp beacon mounted on top of a large cobrajector-type speaker. Honestly, it was a bit ovesized, but it worked. I know one thing: as I mentioned above: it would hurt your ears. When I worked for a private ambulance co. in Odessa, TX, we had one of those Dietz setups on a '66 Pontiac wagon, and you almost couldn't stay inside the car with that siren on. The only other siren I've ever heard that really hurt my ears was a Super Chief. But they're supposed to, you know.
What other sirens do you have in your collection?
You're a man after my own heart when it comes to sirens.....especially since you specifically mention the Federal doubletones and the B&M line. I grew up around both of those sirens. For a number of years Ellis Funeral Home here in Midland ran a Federal Model 78B doubletone siren on a couple of their ambulances. The first I just barely remember, because I was so little. It was roof-mounted on their '48 Chevy panel truck ambulance, and was the only warning device on that truck. I have some memories of watching that truck running hot to the hospital, because that rotating Propello-Ray light fascinated me. In 1950 they replaced the panel truck with a '51 Chevy sedan-deliver. The 78 went on the left fender, and two driving lights that were painted red were mounted on the front corners of the roof. In '53 they gave the sedan-delivery to the black funeral home. The guy swiftly removed and threw away the doubletone because "it used too much juice". He replaced it, would you believe, with a VL (the smallest of the entire Federal line). Good news: when Ellis gave away the little Chevy they replaced it with a '54 Ford station wagon. A Model 17 beacon went on top; it had twin red spots and red bumper lights and a nice B&M S8B Siro-Drift on the left fender. I have to tell you: that was the longest rolling siren I've ever seen. In Sept. 1955 on the first day of school a kid got hit on his scooter headed to school, and it occured right behind my house. My dad called the ambulance and we went to check on the boy. Momentarilly we could hear Ellis coming up Main St. When the ambulance turned off main onto Oak the siren began its downward roll. And roll it did! Turns out that the driver was alone. So my dad and another guy helped carry the kid to the ambulance and place him in the front seat. Since the cops hadn't as yet arrived, the driver waited a few minutes, and after almost 10 minutes told my dad to let the cops know he was headed for the E.R. All that time that ol' Siro-Drift kept rolling and rolling. I've never seen another one like it, and I've used B&Ms over the years. I have a CS8B and an S8 at present. I'd really like to have a Super Chief; but even used or refurbished ones are expensive.
I had one of those Pyle/North American sirens a few years ago, and it was very nice. It had the sound of a Sterling Model 20. I understand that Pyle was an independent co. at one time and then eventually bought out by North American. N.A. dropped their entire line of motordriven sirens a few years back, but still make a wicked electronic siren that is very nice. If you've ever seen one, they are push button operated, and the two last buttons to the right (yelp and hi-lo) can be depressed simulatenously, emitting what they call the "riot" sound. Like I said,......Wicked!
You're probably right about the Dietz setup, as they made a very nice, loud....hurt your ears.....electronic siren. The one package deal that Dietz offered back then consisted of a beacon/speaker combo. plus the siren control. Now, this is not to be confused with Federal's nice CJ speaker/light series. What Dietz had was basically their 211 four-lamp beacon mounted on top of a large cobrajector-type speaker. Honestly, it was a bit ovesized, but it worked. I know one thing: as I mentioned above: it would hurt your ears. When I worked for a private ambulance co. in Odessa, TX, we had one of those Dietz setups on a '66 Pontiac wagon, and you almost couldn't stay inside the car with that siren on. The only other siren I've ever heard that really hurt my ears was a Super Chief. But they're supposed to, you know.
What other sirens do you have in your collection?
theolog
Member
Gotta tell ya, guys...I'm a Q-freak from way back; since I was a kid, in fact. But now that I've finally heard one in person, B&M easily takes the place in my book as the best sounding siren EVER. It's a damn travesty that they're not more well-known and more popular in the fire service nationwide.
The CS8 is my favorite for both unique looks and deep, growly mechanical sound.
The CS8 is my favorite for both unique looks and deep, growly mechanical sound.
theolog said:
You can't help liking that deep-pitched roar of the Super Chief. As I've noted elsewhere, whenever he can do so, B&M owner, Kevin O'Connell, takes his demo Super Chief to Fire/EMS conferences and conventions, and sets up where he can demonstrate the Super Chief's ability to easily outdo a Q. He gets quite a few "converts" that way!! Like you, I do like the CS8. I have one that I wouldn't part with. When I went to Southern California in 2001, I got to see a CS8 that was mounted into the front of a fire truck, and the truck was responding on a call. That CS8 was loud!!! :yes:
Unitrol Touchmaster Delta (for all the tones)
Fed Sig Q
Fed Sig SS2000 (for yelp)
Unitrol Omega 90 (for wail and sweep options)
Whelen 295HFSC9 (for the sound of dual tones)
Fed Sig Q
Fed Sig SS2000 (for yelp)
Unitrol Omega 90 (for wail and sweep options)
Whelen 295HFSC9 (for the sound of dual tones)
Klein said:
I'm not familiar with the SS2000. What's special about it's yelp? Since Federal and so many others have gone to microprocessed sounds instead of "real" amplifiers, the siren tones just don't sound the same. Nothing beats the real yelp of an Interceptor or Director. A paramedic friend of mine here in Texas recently put a Unitrol in his pickup. It has a decent wail and yelp sound, but that "hetro" sound is funky. While I haven't specifically heard Whelen's dual-amp. unit, a couple of the SVP dual-tone units I've heard sounded o.k. What I'd like to hear is a true doubletoned electronic (like the old Federal doubletone motor sirens). I've yet to hear someone do that.
Skip Goulet said:
Skip, where I live the city police use the Smart Siren system their patrol cars. The yelp isn't all that great, but the wail tone sounds similar to the new Whelen sirens.
Skip Goulet said:
It depends which version of the Director and Interceptor you're thinking of. To my ears, the 1960s Directors and Interceptors just sing - those deep low-pitched yelp tones are like music to my ears.
The 1970s Directors and Interceptors (PA15A series 1E and PA20A series 2E) don't sound much different than today's electronic sirens. The yelp has a bit of a 'bark' to it, but it's just as harsh and small sounding as the new stuff.
Wailer said:
I guess I stand corrected??
You asked for opinions, we know yours from your list and then you reply with a negative comment. Great discussion.
On the UTMD I love all the tones. I really only like yelp on the SS2000 but I would take a TMD any day over it. If only there was a remote version of the UTMD (with the exact tones) but I have to use my U90 to get anywhere close using a minimalist setup inside.
theolog
Member
Wailer said:
I agree that some of the later Directors and Interceptors didn't sound all that good. I'm not sure which series it was, but I had one Interceptor whose yelp had more of a wa-wa sound to it than a true yelp. For my money: and I spent a lot of it when my ambulance service was up and running, the best electronic sirens that I used were the earlier Directors and the PA200s. I didn't and still don't like the PA300s. Another siren that I really liked, and there's a thread on one of the forums here, was the Unity SiTron. They were poorly built physically and didn't hold up well for that reason, but when you found one that really worked, they were great......and loud, too. I mentioned on the SiTron thread that I had one mounted in a 1972 Superior hightop Cadillac ambulance. It replaced a Director that the previous owner had used in the car. Over the cab on that little hump that Superior put on their big coaches we had a Q and a pair of TS100 speakers. The original owners had stripped the car just before we got it. In its original form they had a Q and a pair of PA25 speakers with triple 184 beacons up on the hightop and red tunnel lights front and rear, plus a set of headlight flashers. When we put the car in service, as I note above, we had a Q and a pair of TS100s hooked to the SiTron. The car came with twin batteries and a big 150-amp Leece-Neville alternator. With that power plant we could run hot with all the lights in operation and we could run both sirens, which really packed a wallop! One day while on an emergency transfer in Lubbock, we happened to pass a friend of mine who happened to be sitting at an intersection in his POV which we had to go through. He told me later that he had never heard such a noise in all his life! Well, I guess we got the job done! But I don't think I've ever seen an ambulance put out as much light and noise all at one time as a simple '66 Pontiac wagon that had been converted by the Gordon K. Allen Co. in Dallas (the parent co. of the short-lived Modular Ambulance Corp.) for the Longview, TX Fire Dept. The car came with five Dietz 211 beacons (all four corner plus center rear) and threeQs, all mounted between the two front beacons. The car came with twin batteries (to say the least) and twin high outut alternators. I got to go on one run in that car when Gold Star Ambulance in Clovis,NM had the car. All I could say is "ouch"! My longtime friend (now deceased) Travis Hagan lived in Lubbock but was the primary ambulance salesman for Gordon K. Allen in the '60s and '70s. He was the salesman for that '66 when it was speced for Longview. He often told the story about how he and Longview's fire chief went way outside the city with virtually every Q that Gordon K. Allen had in stock. The chief was insistent on getting three Qs all with three separates tones. Travis said it took them hours to go through all the Qs until they got the three tones that the chief wanted. Well, I guess since the department was paying for them, the chief could do what he wanted!! I've seen one other ambulance, then from Hobbs, NM, that ran twin Qs. What I'd really like to see, though, is a pair of Super Chiefs mounted on an ambulance. I bet that Kevin would like that, too!
Skip Goulet said:
The late 1960s Directors (PA15A series 1B, 1C, and 1D) and Interceptors (PA20A series 2B, 2C, and 2D) have a deep wa-wa yelp. It's actually more of a 'wah-yu wah-yu wah-yu' sound, and it has a very 'human voice' like quality to it. The early Smith & Wesson Magnum series electronic sirens had the same kind of yelp.
Skip Goulet said:
The PA200 is a high-pitched siren. It has the same siren oscillator circuit as the 1970s Directors and Interceptors (PA15A series 1E and PA20A series 2E). They all sound similar to the new electronic sirens, although the yelp has more of 'bark' to it - just like a puppy dog. But of all the high-pitched models, the PA200 was the best in terms of design. The circuit board plugged into the amplifier instead of being wired in, making maintenance a lot easier.
Of the PA300s, the only ones I like are the silver face and early black face models. They have a nice slow rising wail tone.
Wailer, I know you don't tolerate the high pitch sounds, but they don't bothe me at all. I guess that's why I liked the PA200s. But what I really liked about them and some of the Interceptors was the ability to hange the selector between tones and get that awesome barking sound and the other sound that I describe as a "chortle, chortle". There's also a chirping sound that you can get that the guys who now build the Powercalls have incorporated into their units, along with their Powercall sound. Now, so far as the deep-pitched sirens, which are unfotunately a thing of the past, two that I had that I liked, and have mentioned previously, are the Vista sirens and the old Sireno Projector series. My friend who is a now-retired vollie fire chief only liked a slow wail rate and the deeper pitch which he calls a "coarse" sound. The slow wails were hard to find except as I note here and one other, which was made by a division of Smith and Wesson. But when my friend was fire chief in the small town of Seagraves, TX, he found a radio tech in Lubbock who could modify the original SVP SA400s with a slow rise and fall. He really liked those. I had told the guy who did the modification that he should build them on his own and patent the process and make some money. Apparently he never did though! Everone enjoy the holidays!
Skip Goulet said:
The PA15A series 1E, PA20A series 2E, PA20A series B (mid 1980s), PA150, PA170, PA200, and PA1000 will all do the the in-between tones that you just mentioned. They all have the same siren oscillator circuit and have the same wail and yelp tones.
I have a PA20A series 2E and a PA200, but when I tried them out they played at a lower pitch than normal. The sirens look pretty well-used, and I'm guessing that the capacitors in the siren oscillator circuit would need replacing to get them back up to their normal high-pitched wail and yelp tones.
usonian said:
Those were SVP SA300 sirens. We had one on an ambulance in Menomonie, WI. It was the same as the SA400, but is was built to be lower hertz for all tones.
Wailer said:
I have a PA150 on my '74 GMC Type II ambulance that came from a small town in OK. It apparently replaced a North American siren (there are twin N.A. speakers on the roof that look like PA100s). I'm not sure if the 150 was capable of 200-watt output like some of the PA200s were, but off those twin speakers, that thing is awesome! Like you've mentioned, on wail and yelp, it's high pitched. But if you just bump the manual button, it's much deeper and anyone standing anywhere close outside the ambulance jumps and holds their ears if you hit the manual! :haha:
markko said:
Well, I thought I knew everything that SVP marketed. Up until STAR took them over their sirens were built by Carson. They are now built in-house at STAR's plant in NY.
As I note in a post above, a radio tech that I knew in Lubbock "rewired" an SA400 to have a slower rise and fall on wail, which slowed down the yelp and hi-lo as well. I bought an SA400 not long after the guy had redone my friend's SA400 and took it to him. I liked the slower rates and the hi-lo would rattle your brain.
Another good slow-rate siren was the Sonic Siren, built by a division of Smith and Wesson. These were plain-jane sirens with only siren tones: no PA or radio rebroadcast. Hence, they were not all that expensive. But their slower rates and deep pitch were brain-jarring, much like the modified SA400s I mention above.
mjberryjr
Member
mjberryjr said:
The Q's great, of course, and I've run my share of them over the years. But you ain't heard nothin' yet if you haven't heard a Super Chief!!
When I originally posted in this thread, I mentioned that B&M opened around 1910. Per the B&M website, they opened in 1913, and they celebrated their centennial in 2013!
CodeMan
Member
Great artilcle Skip !! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
I always liked the dual tone wail/yelp like on "streets of Sanfrancisco"
I always liked the dual tone wail/yelp like on "streets of Sanfrancisco"
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CodeMan said:
The dual tone wail/yelp that you hear is an overdubbed recording of a Federal PA20 siren with reverb added for an 'echo' effect. Both the PA15 and PA20 have wail, yelp, and alert tones and were manufactured from about 1962 to 1966.
I have a PA20, and it sounds just like the sirens on those early 1970s TV 'cop shows'.
CodeMan
Member
billforbush
Member
Best electronic sound:
PA20 (cool in-between tone)
PA200 (nice long wail, clean yelp)
Whelen 295 (cleanest current vintage tones)
Electromechanical:
Federal 77 (most awesome overall tone)
B&M Superchief (really sharp look, nice deep growl)
Federal Q2B (prefer older models with grille cut out behind F logo and slightly deeper tone, the Q is still King!)
Best PA/Ext Radio by far: Motorola Systems 90 or 9000 (siren tones kinda funky though) :undecided:
Bill
PA20 (cool in-between tone)
PA200 (nice long wail, clean yelp)
Whelen 295 (cleanest current vintage tones)
Electromechanical:
Federal 77 (most awesome overall tone)
B&M Superchief (really sharp look, nice deep growl)
Federal Q2B (prefer older models with grille cut out behind F logo and slightly deeper tone, the Q is still King!)
Best PA/Ext Radio by far: Motorola Systems 90 or 9000 (siren tones kinda funky though) :undecided:
Bill
billforbush
Member
One more thought ...
The CP25 / CP100 and the old grey fiberglass rectangular speakers beat the heck out of anything modern for sound output. I would put a 58W PA20 Interceptor with twin fiberglass CJ or chrome/stainless CP series speakers up against most any modern siren with a compact (Dynamax, SA315...) speaker any day for overall volume and effectiveness moving traffic.
The CP25 / CP100 and the old grey fiberglass rectangular speakers beat the heck out of anything modern for sound output. I would put a 58W PA20 Interceptor with twin fiberglass CJ or chrome/stainless CP series speakers up against most any modern siren with a compact (Dynamax, SA315...) speaker any day for overall volume and effectiveness moving traffic.
billforbush
Member
Wailer said:
Very true. I believe the PA15 director can do the special tone also. I first became aware on the Interceptor so that always comes to mind. All three were great sirens, and did awesome PA with the internal switch in they correct position and a Motorola Motrac mic.
Best old electronic: PA15/20A, PA150/200, etc.
Best new electronic: Carson
I use an HHS2200 though I almost never use its siren functions. Whelen certainly has the best air horn sound available, the rest sound like a lame ass buzzer (even Carson).
Best new electronic: Carson
I use an HHS2200 though I almost never use its siren functions. Whelen certainly has the best air horn sound available, the rest sound like a lame ass buzzer (even Carson).
billforbush said:
Something you would've liked was the then-new '76 Type II Dodge van ambulance operated by Metropolitan Ambulance of Amarillo at their substation in Canyon, TX. It had triple CP100 speakers mounted over the cab powered by a single PA15A Director. That was loud!
billforbush said:Very true. I believe the PA15 director can do the special tone also. I first became aware on the Interceptor so that always comes to mind. All three were great sirens, and did awesome PA with the internal switch in they correct position and a Motorola Motrac mic.
If you are thinking of an actual PA15 - which has wail, yelp, and alert tones and was manufactured in the early to mid 1960s - it is capable of making a chirping sound. On the other hand, the wail and yelp tones are much lower in pitch than the more common PA15A series 1E which was manufactured in the 1970s.