Title 13 - California Law

[badge22]

I am having trouble locating information on the use of amber lights in CA. I have tried the search function. As I recall, there was a thread that stated that amber lights we not an actual requirement on the rear of emergency vehicles. Can someone direct me to that information or thread?


Thanks.

 

[EVModules]

Steady red is required, amber is not a requirement.

25259. (a) Any authorized emergency vehicle may display flashing amber warning lights to the front, sides, or rear.

Source: V C Section 25259 Additional Warning Lights on Authorized Emergency Vehicles

 

[11b101abn]

Not a requirement, but a very good idea.

 

[badge22]

Thanks, that's what I thought.

 

[IRISH24]

Can someone please confirm that the majority (if not all) of the Federal Signal & Sound Off light bars and lighting accessories ARE NOT Title 13 compliant??? We recently had a CHP officer inspect our vehicles and we were told that Federal Signal nor Sound Off meet the Title 13 standards in California.

 

[lafd55]

If Federal Signal was not complaint, that would mean pretty much every police lightbar in California would be illegal...


What are your Lights? As far as I know both Federal Signal and Sound off are SAE and California Title 13 certified...

 

[IRISH24]

If Federal Signal was not complaint, that would mean pretty much every police lightbar in California would be illegal...

I am trying to figure out why they would knowingly sell us equipment that is not compliant. Can we get our $$$ back and replace it with a brand that is Title 13 compliant?

 

[IRISH24]

If Federal Signal was not complaint, that would mean pretty much every police lightbar in California would be illegal...

What are your Lights? As far as I know both Federal Signal and Sound off are SAE and California Title 13 certified...

We have a mixture of FS, Whelen, Sound Off & Tomar brand light bars. We were told that Fed Sig does not meet Title 13 and only 1 type of light bar from Sound Off does, but that Tomar & Whelen both meet Title 13.

 

[portswood2]

Came across this the other day on the fed sig site, brochure of all their title 13 stuff


http://www.fedsig.com/docs/PSS157_FS_CA_Title13_Brochure.pdf

 

[IRISH24]

Came across this the other day on the fed sig site, brochure of all their title 13 stuff

http://www.fedsig.com/docs/PSS157_FS_CA_Title13_Brochure.pdf

Here is a link to the FS website, which does show that the Amber Legend light bar passes Title 13. But it does not state anything about a Legend light bar with Red and/or Blue lamps, which is much more important. http://www.fedsig.com/docs/LEGEND_TITLE_13__Pg_1.pdf At this point I guess I better start replacing all of our Federal Signal with either Tomar or Whelen. Suggestions???

 

[EVModules]

Can someone please confirm that the majority (if not all) of the Federal Signal & Sound Off light bars and lighting accessories ARE NOT Title 13 compliant??? We recently had a CHP officer inspect our vehicles and we were told that Federal Signal nor Sound Off meet the Title 13 standards in California.

Interesting. You may want to contact Chris Cox as he's the guru regarding Title 13 over at CHP. If you are a gov't agency, he will tell you a thing or two about risk management. According to him, the position of CHP is not to enforce laws pertaining to emergency vehicles from cities & county governments, but to advise.

 

[badge22]

Here is a link to the FS website, which does show that the Amber Legend light bar passes Title 13. But it does not state anything about a Legend light bar with Red and/or Blue lamps, which is much more important. http://www.fedsig.com/docs/LEGEND_TITLE_13__Pg_1.pdf At this point I guess I better start replacing all of our Federal Signal with either Tomar or Whelen. Suggestions???

#1 What criteria is he using to determine this? (Does he have a list of non-compliant equipment?)


#2 Has he conducted any tests?


#3 How many surrounding departments has he inspected?


#4 What is his authority? (Can he really do anything about it? Is he going to impound your vehicles? Is he going to confiscate your lights? Does he really think he can stop you from doing your duty?)


#5 Is he or someone he knows a dealer for Tomar or Whelen?


I would consider these questions before you go an replace all of your lights. I would also contact Federal and Sound Off, they will have information on this.

 

[badge22]

I am trying to figure out why they would knowingly sell us equipment that is not compliant. Can we get our $$$ back and replace it with a brand that is Title 13 compliant?

They didn't knowing sell you equipment that MAY not have been compliant, you knowingly purchased it. How about providing some answers to the questions that have been provided by other members and myself. Were here to help you. Going off and being mad at Federal and Sound Off and throwing your hands up and saying your going to replace all of your equipment will not get you any sympathy. This is starting to sound trollish....

 

[lafd55]

All Warning Lamps Displayed on Special Hazard Vehicles Shall Comply to all Requirements


California Code of Regulations:


Title XIII, Motor Vehicles Division 2, Department of the California Highway Patrol Chapter 2, Lighting Equipment


Article 22, Warning Lamps. Permitted Yellow Warning Lamps on Special Hazard Vehicles: The flashing yellow warning lamps permitted on special


hazard vehicles shall be a Class B, C or E warning lamp, depending on whether the lamp is permitted to be displayed


only to the front and rear or to the front, sides, and rear.


Classification of Warning Lamps:


Class B: Moderate intensity, wide-beam lamp


Class C: High intensity, wide-beam lamp


Class E: Revolving, oscillating, or gaseous discharge lamp


General Requirements:


Flash Rate: Warning lamps shall operate at a rate of 60 to 120 flashes per minute.


Exterior Lens Surface: The outside surface of the illuminated section of the lens shall be smooth with no ribs, ridges,


or indentations other than marks of identification, screw holes, and sealed unit aiming pads.


Photometric Test Requirements:


The luminous intensity of warning lamps tested shall meet the requirements of the Minimum Candela


of the Table listed.


Required Laboratory Test:


Certification of Compliance to the Requirements of the Society of Automotive


Engineers, AMECA Accredited Laboratory

 

[J. Forbes]

Can someone please confirm that the majority (if not all) of the Federal Signal & Sound Off light bars and lighting accessories ARE NOT Title 13 compliant??? We recently had a CHP officer inspect our vehicles and we were told that Federal Signal nor Sound Off meet the Title 13 standards in California.

You could save yourself a headache and call Federal Signal at 1-800-264-3578 and have them email the certifications to you.


I'm sure they would be happy to do so. I doubt that the LAPD and LAFD are running around with non compliant equipment.


Or you could just look on the product page. Most of their items list the certs on the product flyers.


Here's a sample link to just the Legend Z series for certs:


http://www.fedsig.com/docs/MU437_Legend_Improved_Performance.pdf

 

[IRISH24]

You could save yourself a headache and call Federal Signal at 1-800-264-3578 and have them email the certifications to you.
I'm sure they would be happy to do so. I doubt that the LAPD and LAFD are running around with non compliant equipment.


Or you could just look on the product page. Most of their items list the certs on the product flyers.


Here's a sample link to just the Legend Z series for certs:


http://www.fedsig.com/docs/MU437_Legend_Improved_Performance.pdf

Are only the items outlined in a Yellow box CA T13 compliant? Only the Amber color is outlined under T13. Thank you for your help.

 

[IRISH24]

All Warning Lamps Displayed on Special Hazard Vehicles Shall Comply to all Requirements

California Code of Regulations:


Title XIII, Motor Vehicles Division 2, Department of the California Highway Patrol Chapter 2, Lighting Equipment


Article 22, Warning Lamps. Permitted Yellow Warning Lamps on Special Hazard Vehicles: The flashing yellow warning lamps permitted on special


hazard vehicles shall be a Class B, C or E warning lamp, depending on whether the lamp is permitted to be displayed


only to the front and rear or to the front, sides, and rear.


Classification of Warning Lamps:


Class B: Moderate intensity, wide-beam lamp


Class C: High intensity, wide-beam lamp


Class E: Revolving, oscillating, or gaseous discharge lamp


General Requirements:


Flash Rate: Warning lamps shall operate at a rate of 60 to 120 flashes per minute.


Exterior Lens Surface: The outside surface of the illuminated section of the lens shall be smooth with no ribs, ridges,


or indentations other than marks of identification, screw holes, and sealed unit aiming pads.


Photometric Test Requirements:


The luminous intensity of warning lamps tested shall meet the requirements of the Minimum Candela


of the Table listed.


Required Laboratory Test:


Certification of Compliance to the Requirements of the Society of Automotive


Engineers, AMECA Accredited Laboratory

Thank you very much for this information, but I am more interested in the Red & Blue color lamp compliance.

 

[IRISH24]

They didn't knowing sell you equipment that MAY not have been compliant, you knowingly purchased it. How about providing some answers to the questions that have been provided by other members and myself. Were here to help you. Going off and being mad at Federal and Sound Off and throwing your hands up and saying your going to replace all of your equipment will not get you any sympathy. This is starting to sound trollish....

How do you know this? If there equipment is not compliant, shouldn't they know before selling it? I am not mad, I am in shock that these products are being sold to government agencies under the assumption that they meet CA T13 only to be told that they do not.

 

[IRISH24]

You could save yourself a headache and call Federal Signal at 1-800-264-3578 and have them email the certifications to you.
I'm sure they would be happy to do so. I doubt that the LAPD and LAFD are running around with non compliant equipment.


Or you could just look on the product page. Most of their items list the certs on the product flyers.


Here's a sample link to just the Legend Z series for certs:


http://www.fedsig.com/docs/MU437_Legend_Improved_Performance.pdf

I have been looking on there site over the past few days and can not find anything that says the Legend bar with Red or Blue lamps is CA T13 compliant. I will try calling the number provided and hopefully they will be able to provide me with compliance records and also post them on there website for everyone to see.

 

[badge22]

I have been looking on there site over the past few days and can not find anything that says the Legend bar with Red or Blue lamps is CA T13 compliant. I will try calling the number provided and hopefully they will be able to provide me with compliance records and also post them on there website for everyone to see.

Look harder:


[h=2]Technical Specs and Approvals[/h]

<td>Approvals:td><td>Red 5" or 4"(6 LEDs) and Corner(9 LEDs) are SAE J845 Class 1,


SAE J595 Class 1 and CA T13 Class B compliant


Blue 5" or 4"(6 LEDs) and Corner(9 LEDs) are SAE J845 Class 1,


SAE J595 Class 2 and CA T13 Class B compliant


Amber 5" or 4"(6 LEDs) and Corner(9 LEDs) are SAE J845 Class 1,


SAE J595 Class 2 and CA T13 Limited Class B* compliant


*Two adjacent Amber 5" or 4" heads are compliant. Corner reflector


arrays are NOT compliant.td>

Taken right from their website:


Legend Lightbar - Lightbars | Federal Signal

 

[badge22]

Now, as previously asked...What other products do you need information on?

 

[CenTexPSE]

Sound Off Apex, CA Title 13 Compliant (red and blue)


http://www.soundoffsignal.com/warnamber/Catalog-IndivPages/Lightbars/WarningCat12-APEX.pdf


Sound Off Pinnacle. CA Title 13 Compliant


http://www.soundoffsignal.com/warnamber/Catalog-IndivPages/Lightbars/WarningCat12-Pinnacle-EPL9000.pdf

 

[IRISH24]

Interesting. You may want to contact Chris Cox as he's the guru regarding Title 13 over at CHP. If you are a gov't agency, he will tell you a thing or two about risk management. According to him, the position of CHP is not to enforce laws pertaining to emergency vehicles from cities & county governments, but to advise.

Thank you for this information. This sounds like what the CHP officer was telling me. They are not going to enforce it, but we could be held liable in court should an incident occur. That could be very costly!

 

[IRISH24]

Look harder:

[h=2]Technical Specs and Approvals[/h]

<td>Approvals:td><td>Red 5" or 4"(6 LEDs) and Corner(9 LEDs) are SAE J845 Class 1,


SAE J595 Class 1 and CA T13 Class B compliant


Blue 5" or 4"(6 LEDs) and Corner(9 LEDs) are SAE J845 Class 1,


SAE J595 Class 2 and CA T13 Class B compliant


Amber 5" or 4"(6 LEDs) and Corner(9 LEDs) are SAE J845 Class 1,


SAE J595 Class 2 and CA T13 Limited Class B* compliant


*Two adjacent Amber 5" or 4" heads are compliant. Corner reflector


arrays are NOT compliant.td>

Taken right from their website:


Legend Lightbar - Lightbars | Federal Signal

Can you provide a link to the list you just provided?

 

[bshockme]

Holy lord.... its in the post.


Click the link. It is under tech specs and approvals.

 

[RescueWV]

Can you provide a link to the list you just provided?

He did. It's on the linked page, under "specs."

 

[IRISH24]

#1 What criteria is he using to determine this? (Does he have a list of non-compliant equipment?)
#2 Has he conducted any tests?


#3 How many surrounding departments has he inspected?


#4 What is his authority? (Can he really do anything about it? Is he going to impound your vehicles? Is he going to confiscate your lights? Does he really think he can stop you from doing your duty?)


#5 Is he or someone he knows a dealer for Tomar or Whelen?


I would consider these questions before you go an replace all of your lights. I would also contact Federal and Sound Off, they will have information on this.

The issue is not what can he do about it, the issue is are we purchasing and/or currently using lighting that does not meet CA T13 Standards. If the light bars we have been purchasing do not meet those REQUIREMENTS then to protect ourselves against lawsuits, etc we will need to make changes. It is not his job to run the tests and I don't know if he knows someone who works for Tomar or Whelen, nor do I care. All I care about is being compliant with Title 13 and I am being told that Federal Signal's light bars with Red/Blue lamps are not compliant.

 

[CenTexPSE]

Jesus H. Christ, this thread is going to give me a migrane:bonk:

 

[NPS Ranger]

The link posted above is for "Permitted Yellow Warning Lamps on Special Hazard Vehicles" when in fact you are probably trying to discuss "Required Red Warning Lamps on Authorized Emergency Vehicles."


CA used to require that the red steady burn front facing red lamp was a "Class A: High intensity, concentrated-beam lamp" such as the old Adam 12 Trio lamp. None of the current LED manufacturers to my knowledge have an LED module certified to California Class A intensity, which is basically equal to a high beam headlight intensity.


CA revised their law so that "The steady burning red warning lamp required to be visible to the front of an authorized emergency vehicle by Vehicle Code Section 25252 shall be a Class A, B or C warning lamp." Many manufacturers make LED modules certified to California Class B which is now all that is required.


If the CHP officer was trying to say that your lightbars on emergency vehicles are noncompliant because they don't have a forward facing Class A lamp assembly, that is no longer required under the law.

 

[MPD 818]

I am being told that Federal Signal's light bars with Red/Blue lamps are not compliant.

Ok, I am telling you they are compliant. You should be good to go now.

 

[dg0223]

I'm curious. If you're really a professional who needs these warning lights, why would you come to an internet discussion board for answers to something you're so worried will end in some sort of legal action? God forbid anything happen wherever you are, what are you going to say?


Irish24: Oh, this lightbar is compliant because the guys on the internet told me it was.


Judge: Oh, the internet told you the lightbar was compliant? Case dismissed!


Irish24: Yay!


Just call Federal Signal, and I'm sure they have a representative who can tell you everything you need to know about their products meeting California emergency lighting law. Why would you take the word of anybody on the internet who can make up whatever story they want without any sort of verification.


Regards,


dg, Assistant Police Chief, Fire Captain, State Trooper, Dinosaur Hunter, Alien Detective, Lieutenant Governor of Texas


Oh, and John said I was also on the Aqua Teen Hunger Force.

 

[TritonBoulder47]

DING DING... opcorn: ostcount:

 

[BackYardSales]

We recently had a CHP officer inspect our vehicles and we were told that Federal Signal nor Sound Off meet the Title 13 standards in California.

Did you ask Ponch exactly what the problem was?

 

[RolnCode3]

When we bought our Whelen Justice bars we went thru and set all of them to T13 compliant patterns. All of our lights are set that way (as best I can do).


I disabled Priority on the SS2000s and explain to everyone why you cannot use the sweep function on the Touchmaster Deltas to get the cool phaser sounds. If you're using non-compliant stuff, it's like it doesn't exist.


I'm glad CHP was able to point you in the right direction. I know they do inspections on ambulance companies and the like, but never heard of them inspecting a government agency.


If the OP didn't come here, where exactly should he go? This stuff is so foreign to almost everyone (such as counsel) it would take forever for them to get up speed. I think starting here was not a bad idea.

 

[PTRJason]

When we bought our Whelen Justice bars we went thru and set all of them to T13 compliant patterns. All of our lights are set that way (as best I can do).

I disabled Priority on the SS2000s and explain to everyone why you cannot use the sweep function on the Touchmaster Deltas to get the cool phaser sounds. If you're using non-compliant stuff, it's like it doesn't exist.


I'm glad CHP was able to point you in the right direction. I know they do inspections on ambulance companies and the like, but never heard of them inspecting a government agency.


If the OP didn't come here, where exactly should he go? This stuff is so foreign to almost everyone (such as counsel) it would take forever for them to get up speed. I think starting here was not a bad idea.

Exactly what I was thinking. Fed Sig, Whelen, Sound Off are all T13 compliant, IF they lights and sirens installed are set up correctly.


If they were not, then CHP themselves would not be in compliance. Do not forget older units still have Fed Sig Visions and most of their units have SS2000 control amp hooked to a Rangr control head, so they are still using Fed Sign products.


Just make sure the flash patterns are set correctly (to a T13 compliant one, which in the install manuals, should be noted which ones are and are not complaint) , priority and pahser and all those weird tones are disabled and not available to be used. Wail and Yelp are the only ones legal.

 

[dg0223]

I don't think coming to ELB was a bad start, but if you don't like the answers someone is giving you, then go straight to the horse's mouth and ask them. The OP came in, asked his question, was given his answer, and still keeps asking for verification. One member gave him the exact information he was looking for, and he still asks for the link, when the link was clearly listed at the bottom of the information requested. That means the OP isn't really looking at the information clearly, yet he still keeps asking for it.


Almost everyone on the site is very helpful. Many members have already gone above and beyond in offering information to the OP who, for the most part, seems to not believe the information. Again, if he's that unwilling to accept the information he has already been given, he should just call Federal and get the information straight from them.


If I'm not mistaken, someone has even gone through the trouble of listing Federal's phone number for the OP. However, I'm sure he'll post wanting someone to dial the phone for him.

 

[dwk270]

Can anyone tell me about California Red? I saw it on Feniex's website.


Thanks

 

[OVERKILL]

you must mean california title 13 it is requirement for flash pattern requiring steady red

 

[Jamey@NNE]

Yes, it is a steady burn head

 

[RolnCode3]

FWIW - the Vehicle Code actually specifies the steady burning red. Title13 is all the technical requirements for the lights themselves. Very little (if any) of the usage regulations are in T13. So referring to T13 could include far more than just the solid burning red light.