Aye, the California Vehicle Code obligates all emergency vehicles to be equipped with a forward-facing, steady-burning red light. It's possible to get a waiver, but I don't think the California Highway Patrol grants very many.
Dissension said:Aye, the California Vehicle Code obligates all emergency vehicles to be equipped with a forward-facing, steady-burning red light. It's possible to get a waiver, but I don't think the California Highway Patrol grants very many.
emtanderson51 said:along with a rear facing flashing amber light......
Mandatory... as in it's traditional?rad123 said:In California it is.
Keith K. said:Mandatory... as in it's traditional?
I located this CVC:
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc25252.htm
Is there an additional CVC or other regulation that requires amber to the rear?
rad123 said:As in traditional. I was told it was mandatory.
rad123 said:As in traditional. I was told it was mandatory.
Which?Zack said:Huh?
"Traditional" =/= "Mandatory" when it comes to issues of law.
Oh, I totally understand the law.JohnMarcson said:It (steady red) is the law. It was the law when a single steady burning light was the only light on most emergency vehicles and that has never been changed. You could argue that the law has remained due to the effective distance tracking of steady burn, the CHP's continued use of minimal lighting when stopped, or tradition. Either way this is a long standing law as far as vehicle warning goes. Here are the applicable laws all together in the form of a post in another thread.
People starting using pronouns, and the mandatory steady red requirement and the allowed amber got confused. To clear the thread up:I totally understood the assertion that rear amber was not mandatory despite someone continuing to insist that traditional translated to mandatory.
code3 pse products have too CA standarts......
At my local department here in SoCal, only a few cars use steady burn red. Crown Vic's are usually fitted with blue/amber lights in front and rear, and the newer Ford explorers we have are fitted with Valor light bars, the lights start from the center and part out in the front and does not have a steady burn red on the Valor.
At my local department here in SoCal, only a few cars use steady burn red. Crown Vic's are usually fitted with blue/amber lights in front and rear, and the newer Ford explorers we have are fitted with Valor light bars, the lights start from the center and part out in the front and does not have a steady burn red on the Valor.
I guarantee you that there is a steady red on the vehicles. It is CA law, and has not changed for decades.
Usually on the Valor they use a "hotfoot" where the base of the lightbar has leds on the mounting feet. Usually in CA they area steay Red and Blues. The lightbar itself flashes. This is because the new bars don't have steady patterns in them.
I have also seen agencies add red and blue LEDs to the under side of the lightbar itself to use as steady burn.
If the lightbar does not have it, they may have grill lights or an interior light set to steady.
Nothing says the lightbar has to have it, as long as it is mounted to the vehicle, facing to the front, it does not matter where it is.
If the units you are talking about is one that is in your avatar here on ELB, the steady red and blues are on the hot foot. Mounted on the ends of the bar, beneath the actual bar.
On the Silverado its clearly not legal, unless someone messed with the flash patterns. I guarantee any installer in CA will set lights to steady burn.
If that is your department you may want to tell them, so it can be changed back. By law there has to be a steady burn light. A lawyer will eat the department on the stand if they have pics like this that show it is not a legal emergency vehicle. Regardless of what it says on the side of the vehicle, technically someone does not have to pull over for it, or stop for it. If they light someone up and they run, a lawyer can pretty much have any eluding cases dropped because it was not a legal emergency vehicle.
It dumb to think of it like that, but it is a law that has been in the CVC for decades. How a lawyer will look at it like, your officers are breaking the law every time they run through red lights, or stop signs, so why is my client for not stopping for a vehicle, that was not in compliance with the law? CVC says a vehicle must yield to a steady burn red, does not say anything about flashing lights.
Just trying to cover your butt. I have seen traffic investigators for insurance companies and lawyers take photos of emergency vehicles, and their positioning if they were involved in an accident or anything, and what factors caused it.
Is that Redlands? As San Bernardino Co? You can see on the Utility in the background that the steady red and blues are under the light bar.
On the Silverado its clearly not legal, unless someone messed with the flash patterns. I guarantee any installer in CA will set lights to steady burn.
If that is your department you may want to tell them, so it can be changed back. By law there has to be a steady burn light. A lawyer will eat the department on the stand if they have pics like this that show it is not a legal emergency vehicle. Regardless of what it says on the side of the vehicle, technically someone does not have to pull over for it, or stop for it. If they light someone up and they run, a lawyer can pretty much have any eluding cases dropped because it was not a legal emergency vehicle.
It dumb to think of it like that, but it is a law that has been in the CVC for decades. How a lawyer will look at it like, your officers are breaking the law every time they run through red lights, or stop signs, so why is my client for not stopping for a vehicle, that was not in compliance with the law? CVC says a vehicle must yield to a steady burn red, does not say anything about flashing lights.
Just trying to cover your butt. I have seen traffic investigators for insurance companies and lawyers take photos of emergency vehicles, and their positioning if they were involved in an accident or anything, and what factors caused it.
Is that Redlands? As San Bernardino Co? You can see on the Utility in the background that the steady red and blues are under the light bar.
Redlands PD needs to get with the program and fix the problem. It will become a problem as Jason said, a lawyer will eat them alive. And the City will have to pay out if a unit gets in a crash.
Case in point, late 1990, Federal Fire Dept on US Navy bases in the San Diego area only had flashing and rotating red lights on their USN fire engines. They started responding off base on mutual aid calls. We brought up to their Bat Chiefs CVC requiring a steady red light, they laughed at us "were the federal government, we don't have to follow state law". A couple of months later a Bat Chief responding on a city street outside the base got in a crash in an intersection, the Navy's lawyer ended up asking the other driver how many zero's they would like on the amount of the check. Buy the next week all the fire engines had a steady red light installed on top of the light bar.
CA T13 has nothing to do with the brand of lights really - but rather than way they are used. Ex: with almost every major brand and the departments they are used in, the end user/up fitter controls HOW (flash patterns) used. . . Like on CantrolWC, Blueprint, Matrix, Pathfinder etc…and to be CA T13 compliant there must simply be at least ONE forward facing RED light visible at all times — accomplished via many lights, with at least one light displaying red at any given point (like if recording a vehicle flashing, it should show a red light at any point that the video is paused). **When less control of total lighting packages was possible, BRANDS usually included a CA T13 feature / pattern option(s). ex: Code3 light heads might have 69 flash patterns, of which 10 are CA T13 —or— like Whelen LC products, like an Inner Edge XLP LC, or FedSig ILS Serial, have a trigger wire that steady burns one red specific module, or even allows selection of any of the Red modules to display steady on while all other modules do their flash patterns.They didn't knowing sell you equipment that MAY not have been compliant, you knowingly purchased it. How about providing some answers to the questions that have been provided by other members and myself. Were here to help you. Going off and being mad at Federal and Sound Off and throwing your hands up and saying your going to replace all of your equipment will not get you any sympathy. This is starting to sound trollish....
T13 has nothing to do with the steady red requirement. Steady red is ONLY required if the vehicle is responding, they have to have a steady red to be classified as an emergency vehicle. The vehicle can have nothing else on the car except a steady red.CA T13 has nothing to do with the brand of lights really - but rather than way they are used. Ex: with almost every major brand and the departments they are used in, the end user/up fitter controls HOW (flash patterns) used. . . Like on CantrolWC, Blueprint, Matrix, Pathfinder etc…and to be CA T13 compliant there must simply be at least ONE forward facing RED light visible at all times — accomplished via many lights, with at least one light displaying red at any given point (like if recording a vehicle flashing, it should show a red light at any point that the video is paused). **When less control of total lighting packages was possible, BRANDS usually included a CA T13 feature / pattern option(s). ex: Code3 light heads might have 69 flash patterns, of which 10 are CA T13 —or— like Whelen LC products, like an Inner Edge XLP LC, or FedSig ILS Serial, have a trigger wire that steady burns one red specific module, or even allows selection of any of the Red modules to display steady on while all other modules do their flash patterns.
***Soooo…short answer : NO, FS/SOS didn’t do anything wrong, and virtually ALL major brand products are/can be compliant. BTW: Tomar?? Really…?? Not even in the same league as Whelen, FS, SOS or Code3. . . Close runners up would be Star Signal, Feniex, Abrams (lot of Code3 manufactured items), and SnM (primarily 911 Signal manufactured products - essentially the Whelen/FS of Asia). Then Tomar and Brookings etc. **NEVER, mistake STL, UBL, or especially ETD as being “professional” level brands. They are at best POV volunteer products for those on tight budgets
CA vehicle code
Warning Lamps on Authorized Emergency Vehicles
Warning Lights on Vehicles Operated by Personnel of Marshal's Department
25254. In any county with a population of 250,000 or more persons, publicly owned vehicles operated by peace officer personnel of a marshal's department, when actually being used in the enforcement of the orders of any court, including, but not limited to, the transportation of prisoners, may display flashing amber warning lights to the rear when such vehicles are necessarily parked upon a roadway and such parking constitutes a hazard to other motorists.