[Updated 12/23/14]Updating a 1990 Sutphen Platform

[Brendan11]

Hey guys,
My department is looking to upgrade the scene light and warning lights on our 1990 95' Platform. Right now it has old halogen (Weldon maybe??) square lights and two old rotating beacons on the top. We just got a new Engine with all Power Arc Lighting and it is amazing! But, we cant exactly afford that on the ladder. We are thinking maybe a power arc VOLT bar on the front and two power arcs in the housing above the head lights but not sure on the rest. Any suggestions? Were having this done by a company, we are just trying to get it all planned out first.

Thanks.

I've attached a picture of the truck and a picture of the style lights that are on it.

-------------------------------UPDATE--------------------------------------

So the truck is done, and we just got it back in service. Lights are all updated. We are now going to start a plan for updating scene lighting, adding white perimeter and under-body lighting etc. 

Here are some pictures from when we picked it up. Weather here has been crappy its raining now and they are calling for snow tomorrow so I haven't got any good videos. 

 

[lotsofbars]

First off, I'd be more than willing to take the two old beacons from the truck once they're updated.


As for the front, I think that the PowerArc lightbar is a great idea, but the PowerArc lights would not be suitable for the housings above the lights. This is because they would have to be so heavily modified to accommodate the lights that it would most likely end up costing your department a whole lot more than it would if you left them alone. However, I do see that the truck has a traffic clearing light of some sort in the front center. That area is perfect for a new PowerArc lighthead. In addition to there, you could also do away with the two front Weldon lights and install the moving heads there. As for the rest of the equipment, Whelen and Federal Signal both have the same size of lightheads in LED's as what are currently on the truck, if you're looking to go all LED. Look at Federal Signal QuadraFlare lightheads or Whelen M9 lightheads to see which ones fit your company's truck the best.

 

[Brendan11]

First off, I'd be more than willing to take the two old beacons from the truck once they're updated.

As for the front, I think that the PowerArc lightbar is a great idea, but the PowerArc lights would not be suitable for the housings above the lights. This is because they would have to be so heavily modified to accommodate the lights that it would most likely end up costing your department a whole lot more than it would if you left them alone. However, I do see that the truck has a traffic clearing light of some sort in the front center. That area is perfect for a new PowerArc lighthead. In addition to there, you could also do away with the two front Weldon lights and install the moving heads there. As for the rest of the equipment, Whelen and Federal Signal both have the same size of lightheads in LED's as what are currently on the truck, if you're looking to go all LED. Look at Federal Signal QuadraFlare lightheads or Whelen M9 lightheads to see which ones fit your company's truck the best.

The clear light is remaining untouched. We have talked with Ken from Power Arc and he is pretty sure that the dual power arc housing will fit there easily (he hasn't came and actually looked at it yet). We talked above making the two front Weldons in power arcs and that it still a possibilty. Also with the Weldons i believe they are 8x9, and the m9s are 6 1/2'' by 10 3/8'' so I don't believe they will work. the QuadraFlares are 9.2 x 7.2. So is there a way to make these fit or do i have to start looking for something else?


thanks

 

[pdk9]

The clear light is remaining untouched. We have talked with Ken from Power Arc and he is pretty sure that the dual power arc housing will fit there easily (he hasn't came and actually looked at it yet). We talked above making the two front Weldons in power arcs and that it still a possibilty. Also with the Weldons i believe they are 8x9, and the m9s are 6 1/2'' by 10 3/8'' so I don't believe they will work. the QuadraFlares are 9.2 x 7.2. So is there a way to make these fit or do i have to start looking for something else?

thanks

I would go back and confirm the exact dimensions of the Weldons, because the 7x9 is pretty standard, and I'm guessing that your Weldons are 7x9s as well, which would make using Whelen 900s, FedSig Quadraflare 9x7s, etc. pretty easy.


I like Power Arc, but I would never personally spec a rig that is solely Power Arc because I believe that there are limitations:


--Pricey


--Require more space (depth), which you may not have in certain areas of the truck, than standard flush surface mount lightheads. Although they do have "surface mount lights," Power Arc surface mounts look bulky/protrude outwards a decent amt.


--Inability to sync, which makes it look uncoordinated IMO


Thus, I would recommend mostly Whelen 900's (b/c it will be an easier upgrade), a NFPA Freedom (save some money over a loaded power arc bar that, IMO, will look goofy on the Sutphen-shaped cab), & try to incorporate Power Arc somewhere up front for its unique "sweeping" effect. Obviously, Ken will say that his products will work, but i'm not so sure with the old school sutphen housings for triple flashing lights (but they maybe would on the grill light brackets on modern sutphens b/c they are larger/accommodate pairs of larger LED surface mounts). For example, Power Arc would be a nice "poor mans" Mars light or modern Oscilaser replacement in the center of the grill area.

 

[Brendan11]

I would go back and confirm the exact dimensions of the Weldons, because the 7x9 is pretty standard, and I'm guessing that your Weldons are 7x9s as well, which would make using Whelen 900s, FedSig Quadraflare 9x7s, etc. pretty easy.

I like Power Arc, but I would never personally spec a rig that is solely Power Arc because I believe that there are limitations:


--Pricey


--Require more space (depth), which you may not have in certain areas of the truck, than standard flush surface mount lightheads. Although they do have "surface mount lights," Power Arc surface mounts look bulky/protrude outwards a decent amt.


--Inability to sync, which makes it look uncoordinated IMO


Thus, I would recommend mostly Whelen 900's (b/c it will be an easier upgrade), a NFPA Freedom (save some money over a loaded power arc bar that, IMO, will look goofy on the Sutphen-shaped cab), & try to incorporate Power Arc somewhere up front for its unique "sweeping" effect. Obviously, Ken will say that his products will work, but i'm not so sure with the old school sutphen housings for triple flashing lights (but they maybe would on the grill light brackets on modern sutphens b/c they are larger/accommodate pairs of larger LED surface mounts). For example, Power Arc would be a nice "poor mans" Mars light or modern Oscilaser replacement in the center of the grill area.

You are probably right, I am going off dimensions that some one else gave me. So I will go check them out personally. If so, then the transfer to the 900s would be simple.


--As for the Power Arcs, we will not be doing the whole truck with them because of price. Our new Engine is all Power Arc and it is quiet impressive and if we could afford it, this truck would be the same way.


--The space really isn't that big of an issue if you pay attention when you place them. (A member of our truck committee said the same thing when specing our Engine, but hes a believe now lol)


--THe sync is not a huge deal simply because not many of the head we chose actually flash, they just oscillate.


I do agree with you that they arent meant for everywhere. We are most likely going to have a mix of power arcs and whelen M9s on the truck when we are done hopefully. More of the power arcs on the front and back and M9s on the sides. At least thats the plan right now, we will see how the prices come back.


Thanks for the the quick replies and the suggestions. Ill measure the Weldons my self and report back haha

 

[WS224]

1990 Sutphen.......save your money and get new lights on a new truck.

 

[Brendan11]

1990 Sutphen.......save your money and get new lights on a new truck.

The truck is in good condition, it's works and does its job. Plus we don't have 1 million plus dollars to replace it.

 

[WS224]

The truck is in good condition, it's works and does its job. Plus we don't have 1 million plus dollars to replace it.

Bummer.

 

[Brendan11]

Bummer.

Definitely. I wish we could just replace it

 

[rwo978]

Keep it period-ish correct.


Mount 2 or 3 mini Aeros (one where each beacon is now, 45 deg)... and maybe one in the center.


As for the body heads, get the appropriate size 5mm LED modules and connect to the flasher.


DON'T, I repeat DON'T, put a $3000 new technology LED bar on a 25 year old truck. It's Sacrilegious!!!

 

[theroofable]

If you have the money to replace the lights, go for it. Keep the old ones to swap out when you sell it, and reuse them on something else.

 

[Eric1249]

If you have the money to replace the lights, go for it. Keep the old ones to swap out when you sell it, and reuse them on something else.

That is a good idea. Power Arcs are great lights and effective.

 

[Brendan11]

so I went and measured them myself and they are 7x9 so those lights would work

 

[pdk9]

Have u guys decided on lightbar yet? I was thinking that 4 mini edges (all strobe) would look killer there...2 up front at 45 degree angles & 2 facing out sideways towards the rear of the cab (I think this is very beneficial, since there is no warning on the side of the cab, ie between the cab doors). Even though I'm in favor of 900s or quadraflare 9x7s for perimeter warning, I think the strobe bars would look solid up there & make it look a little more 1990's

 

[Brendan11]

Have u guys decided on lightbar yet? I was thinking that 4 mini edges (all strobe) would look killer there...2 up front at 45 degree angles & 2 facing out sideways towards the rear of the cab (I think this is very beneficial, since there is no warning on the side of the cab, ie between the cab doors). Even though I'm in favor of 900s or quadraflare 9x7s for perimeter warning, I think the strobe bars would look solid up there & make it look a little more 1990's

We are not 100% on anything yet. I definitely like that option, and we have looked into the idea of having separate bars on the roof.


We are getting bids currently from a few local companies. My chief spoke with Ken from Power Arc today and the preliminary cost figure he gave us is one heck of a deal for the whole truck. We will hopefully have a decision made this Thursday and I will keep you guys posted.

 

[lotsofbars]

Whatever you decide, I'm still willing to take the old beacons once they're off!


Also, the Edge lightbar suggestion is something I really like the sound of. But if you're going with PowerArc and got a good deal, do it by all means.

 

[Brendan11]

Whatever you decide, I'm still willing to take the old beacons once they're off!

Also, the Edge lightbar suggestion is something I really like the sound of. But if you're going with PowerArc and got a good deal, do it by all means.

I'll keep you posted on the beacons! lol


I think the edge would look awesome, but for the price we are getting, I don't think we can pass on it lol

 

[fireman616wfd]

If you are using the truck still, if you have the money, and you guys want upgraded lighting.... DO IT! A lot of people hate to see the "old lights" go but I say they will get you ran over also. We just upgraded a 1990 Engine we had because the guys kept saying you cant see the lights flashing in the day time, it doesn't have enough, etc.. we had the money so we did and it turned out great!


I would say...


1,) Put a Whelen 72" Freedom lightbar with respected color lenses.


2.) Put a pair of PowerArcs up front in red as you were talking about and put a white powerarc in the center light that you discussed with the guy.


3.) Where there are Weldons Lights, Put Whelen 900 series. You will have to decide on clear or colored lenses but make sure to sync them and not on a crazy pattern.


4.) Not sure what the rear looks like but we put a pair of 900's in Red/Amber Split and synced them and love the look of that.. Maybe a pair of LED Beacons w/colored lenses.??


5.) Scene lighting.... well recently we purchased two Whelen Dual Pioneer Plus lights and they do really good. We also have 900 series SUPER led scene lights on body and they do great!


Good Luck! Post Pics and Videos when you guys get done.

 

[Brendan11]

If you are using the truck still, if you have the money, and you guys want upgraded lighting.... DO IT! A lot of people hate to see the "old lights" go but I say they will get you ran over also. We just upgraded a 1990 Engine we had because the guys kept saying you cant see the lights flashing in the day time, it doesn't have enough, etc.. we had the money so we did and it turned out great!

I would say...


1,) Put a Whelen 72" Freedom lightbar with respected color lenses.


2.) Put a pair of PowerArcs up front in red as you were talking about and put a white powerarc in the center light that you discussed with the guy.


3.) Where there are Weldons Lights, Put Whelen 900 series. You will have to decide on clear or colored lenses but make sure to sync them and not on a crazy pattern.


4.) Not sure what the rear looks like but we put a pair of 900's in Red/Amber Split and synced them and love the look of that.. Maybe a pair of LED Beacons w/colored lenses.??


5.) Scene lighting.... well recently we purchased two Whelen Dual Pioneer Plus lights and they do really good. We also have 900 series SUPER led scene lights on body and they do great!


Good Luck! Post Pics and Videos when you guys get done.

That's why were upgrading lights as well. We are gonna start running this truck to accidents for blocking purposes on the highway, so we want it to be visible both day and night.


I like your ideas and we were looking at that option until we got our bid from Power Arc and it looks like we may be going with all power arc. Except we may to 900 series on the side but that would be it. As for scene lights, its definitely going to be 4 FRC Spectras that we replace the halogen quartz lights with. They are some of the brightest lights I've seen, just my opinion.


I will forsure get pics and videos when it is done. It will be gone for awhile, as there are a lot of upgrades that are getting done to it.

 

[Brendan11]

I know it's been awhile since I updated this, but everything is approved, the truck is being repainted and getting all Power Arcs on it. We are on the list for the shop to get us in, so that is all that we are waiting on. I'll be sure to update this when we get it back. 

 

[Storm4200]

Sounds great.

Can we get a video of the all PowerArc engine in the meantime? 

 

[Brendan11]

Sounds great.

Can we get a video of the all PowerArc engine in the meantime? 

I'll try to get a decent one in the next few days and post it up here. 

 

[pdk9]

I'll try to get a decent one in the next few days and post it up here.

[2 wks later]


.........We're still waiting Brendan!!!! ;-)

 

[Brendan11]

I didn't forget guys! Just haven't had a chance yet, I will get the video though! lol 

 

[Brendan11]

Alright, the truck has been painted, lights are being installed and stripping is being worked on. Truck should be done the end of the week or next week. I'll get pics and videos then. 

As for the video of the Engine, I'll admit, I did forget lol I'll get that too.

 

[801]

We would love to see a vid of the truck with the PowerArc's.  I spec'ed them on a rescue/engine we bought back in 2011 and they rock socks.

 

[Brendan11]

I'll be up at the station tomorrow and will try to get a video of the engine, if the weather cooperates.

Just got news yesterday that the ladder will be ready Monday afternoon if everything goes right, if not then Tuesday. 

 

[Brendan11]

Updated on the original post.

 

[dmathieu]

Interesting, on the front bumper of the old set-up, Whelen Responders!!!

 

[801]

I love that color scheme. How do you like the PowerArc's?

 

[Brendan11]

I love that color scheme. How do you like the PowerArc's?

we love them! Our new engine is all PowerArcs as well

 

[Storm4200]

Looks great. Cant wait to see that Volt lightbar in action. The new colors look soooo much better and the best part about all, the black wheels. Good job.

 

[342]

We just upgraded the light on our 1987 Mack Baker 75' tower.   I used powerarcs as well.   I placed the P6's on the front corners. P14 surface mount in between the wheel wells, and the P14 pedestal mounts     ( upside down )   rear corners.   For the lights on the cab  I placed the split volt 25" bars, using the old lightbar frame. By doing this I didn't need to drill new holes in the roof, and it saved on buying the mounting feet, for the volt system. ( this was an idea that Joe from powerarc came up with )

                                                                                                                                                                                    I left the lights on the front of the cab alone.  We removed the oscillators in the front, and placed a Q siren in its place.  The oscillators,  we are having a box built for them and the will be mounted to the bumper, in place of the electronic siren that was there originally.  

All the work on the rig was done in house, rig was OOS for about a month.

 

[Storm4200]

Looks great! Video?

 

[342]

http://youtu.be/cgAzPX_pz7A

At 1:11:20    is about where it starts when you can see the lights.

 

[rond]

Those lights sure do grab my attention. Looks nice.