Whelen SA315 Make in Taiwan

[factorone33]

I think Whelen is skating on thin ice unless they are very forthright by stating that some (or many) LEDs, and speaker drivers, or whatever components are sourced off-shore. The materials may be of excellent quality, the LEDs may be fantastic, and the speaker drivers may blow away the whole world of sirens, but these are not at issue. Deception is the issue. After all, the speaker is a major part of the siren, and LEDs are not after thoughts to critical warning systems.

Whelen isn't the only manufacturer "skating on thin ice". I'd put the American "authenticity" of Whelen's product line against Code 3, Federal, Sound Off, or anybody else without hesitation. And this is why:

most if not all the LED's are made over seas. The US market could not manufacture the leds as cheaply.

Most Light-Emitting Diodes are either Korean, Japanese, or Chinese (primarily Chinese). American LEDs run 2 to 3 times more expensive than their Asian counterparts (e.g. I can buy warm-white 1-watt diodes direct from China for as cheap as 18¢ apiece, whereas in the U.S. for the same diodes, I may pay as much as $1 per diode).


This doesn't apply to just diodes: capacitors, resistors, transistors, MOS-FETs, zener diodes, etc. Solid state electronics everywhere are designed in the U.S., and often assembled or "manufactured" in the U.S., but 90% of the raw components come from overseas.


I'm not some super Whelen fan-boy hell bent on telling everybody they're wrong. Whelen uses some of the same diodes that everybody else uses--but I support Whelen because of the quality of the parts around the diodes (circuit boards, reflectors, housings, lenses, etc.). And their warranty is worth it.

 

[Solvarex]

Something the rabid "Made in USAers" are going to have to learn is the fact that North America literally runs off the cheap materials and labor of the third world. You think that you would have the monitor you're reading this on, the CPU processing the data, the modem sending it to you, the clothes you're wearing, the chair you're sitting in, the car you drive, the glasses you drink with, the plates you eat from, and the sirens and lightbars you fawn over, if every piece of them were manufactured here? Hell no.


We've grown accustomed to the comparatively affluent lifestyle we lead thanks to the penny wages and cheap as dirt materials of China, Taiwan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Mexico, and wherever else most of our stuff comes from. That's how the world works. If your desire is to move away from that and get stuff produced here, be prepared to pay the $4,000 that computer's gonna cost ya, or the $60,000 Chevy Cruze. Hell, minimum wage here just went up to $10/hour and the latest postpubescent spawn (I call them Generation Whine) barely churns out a day's "work" at that rate. No one's happy with the little jobs anymore, everyone has to be a gangsta rap superstar millionaire and TAKE what's theirs; working is for suckas. It's enough to make me wanna get the 12 gauge and get busy.


If the furor is over claims of Made in USA that are false then I fully support that. That's false advertising and manufacturers should be taken to task over it. However the naivete of those clamoring for more domestic manufacturing jobs, ostensibly UNIONIZED manufacturing jobs with pensions and wages to support a family of four in a $300K house with two cars, is mind boggling. They're so busy brow beating everyone with their nation's flag they probably didn't notice it was made in China too.

 

[DarkHelmet]

Looking at this thread from another angle:


In my day job I work in a manufacturing field. Many manufacturers subcontract various parts and assemblies for various reasons. For instance, our company manufactures military small arms. We don't make our own springs, or small screws in house. It takes a $300,000 machine to turn out little bitty screws that we use one or two of in each product - not cost effective.


Now, when it comes to subcontracting, here is my experience. I need a "widget" made to fill some need.


1) I call several large USA based manufacturers. Three weeks later I still haven't even received a call back. When I hunt them down they tell me how busy they are. That it will take 6 months to have a prototype. They complain about lack of material availability. They tell me the cost will probably be "X" dollars. When they deliver the prototype it is out of spec.


2) I call a Chinese based manufacturer. I tell them I need a "widget" made of X material, and to these specifications. Three weeks later I have a fully completed, hard anodized prototype in my hands including shipping and Customs from China! It is 100% in-spec, 1/3 to 1/5 the price. No excuses.


You want to know why American manufacturing doesn't exist anymore? However, in my field, we are tightly regulated and cannot outsource much of anything outside the US. And due to the Berry Amendment, we wouldn't even if we could, as that would make it ineligible for purchase by Military/Government clients that must buy US Made items. About all we outsource is some of our promotional materials like hats, banners... but we get them fast, and for a fraction of the cost of US made.


Last but not least - Made in China does not necessarily mean that it is crap. There is a saying in manufacturing, "You can have it cheap, you can have it fast, and you can have it be high quality - pick any two". Most of the stuff you see from China falls under the "Cheap and Fast" heading - per the vendor's specifications - they buy from China because they want it fast and they want it for less than they can make it here. But you can have things made in China that rival the quality of anything made in the US if that is what the vendor specifies. With literally a billion people that need jobs they have almost 100% quality control checking of the things they make.


- DH

 

[DarkHelmet]

...snip... probably didn't notice it was made in China too.

Yeah, you pretty much nailed it on that one. Getting tired of going to my favorite restaurant for lunch only to feel like I've interrupted some pimple faced kid's text messaging session so that he can do his job and bring me a sandwich. He'll probably complain about me to his friends on Facebook.

 

[Sigma Safety]

Whelen isn't the only manufacturer "skating on thin ice". I'd put the American "authenticity" of Whelen's product line against Code 3, Federal, Sound Off, or anybody else without hesitation. {snip}

I think the original point that Whelen is saying that everything they make is made in USA - here's the quote off their website; "All products proudly designed, manufactured and assembled in the U.S.A. " (my emphasis). They are posting that US Gov't document spouting what exactly "made in USA" means under FTC rules. Then, as we all know, their speaker drivers are made in Taiwan. To me, that's the real issue. They're lying and they know it. There is no other explanation. They can't claim they don't know what the FTC rules state, and they can't say they don't know their drivers are coming from offshore. They also can't claim that the driver is not a major component of the speaker. To me, that speaks volumes about the character of a company.


I don't see FS and the others making the same claim (that everything they make is made in USA), unless I'm missing something.


Note that not all LEDs are made offshore. I know that Lumileds are manufactured in Malaysia, but CREE LEDs are manufactured in South Carolina. I also know that Federal Signal's #1 supplier of LEDs is CREE. I can't speak to the other manufacturers.

 

[IRISH24]

TOMAR is truly "Made" & "Built" in America and not just 1 of there products, but all of them.

Whelen isn't the only manufacturer "skating on thin ice". I'd put the American "authenticity" of Whelen's product line against Code 3, Federal, Sound Off, or anybody else without hesitation. And this is why:



Most Light-Emitting Diodes are either Korean, Japanese, or Chinese (primarily Chinese). American LEDs run 2 to 3 times more expensive than their Asian counterparts (e.g. I can buy warm-white 1-watt diodes direct from China for as cheap as 18¢ apiece, whereas in the U.S. for the same diodes, I may pay as much as $1 per diode).


This doesn't apply to just diodes: capacitors, resistors, transistors, MOS-FETs, zener diodes, etc. Solid state electronics everywhere are designed in the U.S., and often assembled or "manufactured" in the U.S., but 90% of the raw components come from overseas.


I'm not some super Whelen fan-boy hell bent on telling everybody they're wrong. Whelen uses some of the same diodes that everybody else uses--but I support Whelen because of the quality of the parts around the diodes (circuit boards, reflectors, housings, lenses, etc.). And their warranty is worth it.

 

[bluestinger90]

Still drinking that Tomar kool aid?


That's ok... I think it tastes nice too. Not my favorite flavor though!

 

[ChangchungLeds]

I think the original point that Whelen is saying that everything they make is made in USA - here's the quote off their website; "All products proudly designed, manufactured and assembled in the U.S.A. " (my emphasis). They are posting that US Gov't document spouting what exactly "made in USA" means under FTC rules. Then, as we all know, their speaker drivers are made in Taiwan. To me, that's the real issue. They're lying and they know it. There is no other explanation. They can't claim they don't know what the FTC rules state, and they can't say they don't know their drivers are coming from offshore. They also can't claim that the driver is not a major component of the speaker. To me, that speaks volumes about the character of a company.

I don't see FS and the others making the same claim (that everything they make is made in USA), unless I'm missing something.


Note that not all LEDs are made offshore. I know that Lumileds are manufactured in Malaysia, but CREE LEDs are manufactured in South Carolina. I also know that Federal Signal's #1 supplier of LEDs is CREE. I can't speak to the other manufacturers.

You are right about that Federal Signal's #1 supplier of LEDs is CREE.


But I think that their products are assembled overseas;


View attachment 67330


I wondering about this asian sign or letter...

 

[bluestinger90]

You are right about that Federal Signal's #1 supplier of LEDs is CREE.

But I think that their products are assembled overseas;


View attachment 67330


I wondering about this asian sign or letter...

I think that could be explained by this post I found that applies to the impaxx 6, and probably impaxx 3;


http://elightbars.org/forums/f13/small-dual-color-lights-individual-color-activation-33975/#post410619

The raw, unpopulated PC boards are made in China on those lights. FedSig gets them in-house, populates them on their machines in chicago, then assembles them all. When you are talking about populating boards with LEDs, adding wire, housings, assembling, etc., that's clearly a lot more than just slapping a bezel and a sticker on them.

I think you could legitimately say these are Made in USA.

 

[ChangchungLeds]

I think that could be explained by this post I found that applies to the impaxx 6, and probably impaxx 3;

http://elightbars.org/forums/f13/small-dual-color-lights-individual-color-activation-33975/#post410619

Thanks, good to know this, I wont change my FS for nothing...

 

[Skip Goulet]

I have a Federal PA20A series 2E that has some circuit board components made in Taiwan. I think the use of Asian components began in the 1970s.

There was recent talk elsewhere on the board about Federal using foreign parts, such as in the coaster clutch, on the Q sirens. I'm not a bit surprised about foreign parts showing up in anything electronic. They should use a disclaimer that says that they are built in the U.S. with foreign-made parts.