Rotators in the grill, on the hood, on the fender or "down low"

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,971
Northwest Ohio
As brought up in another thread, I'm a big fan of rotators for mid/low warning. Many depts used to put rotators on the bumpers of rescues, fireballs on the fenders/hoods of ambulances and lightbars mid level on fire apparatus (Syracuse). Whelen, Code 3 and Demers (ambulance) have made flush mount 6x4 / 9x7 size rotators (which kinda defeats part of the purpose IMHO by losing the wide angle of light).


Anyway.... this thread is for discussing and showing examples of mounting and effectiveness of rotators in non traditional places on vehicles.
 

RDT Car 25

Member
May 22, 2010
364
Milford, CT
Phoenix FD did as well. I remember seeing Code 3 XL's or SD's mounted grille height. There was a department in CT that had them mounted on the corners of their front bumper. I still can't remember which FD it was though. I like the idea. It will definitely get your attention.


2331567992_507837d446.jpg


Here's a site with several Phoenix FD apparatus: Phoenix, AZ area Fire Apparatus photos
 
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Steve0625

Member
Jun 23, 2010
1,213
Northville NY
This '71 Cadi had a nice red FB1 out on the nose of the hood. The backside of the dome was painted black, but it was still pretty effective for intersection warning.


ai920.photobucket.com_albums_ad42_Steve_Collins_MiscEMS_71CadiMillerMeteorERVAC449.jpg


And it's the first coach I ever worked in. It was less than a year old when I joined up. I miss that car, a lot!
 

FGS

Member
May 21, 2010
174
United States, Maryland
Steve0625 said:
This '71 Cadi had a nice red FB1 out on the nose of the hood. The backside of the dome was painted black, but it was still pretty effective for intersection warning.

ai920.photobucket.com_albums_ad42_Steve_Collins_MiscEMS_71CadiMillerMeteorERVAC449.jpg


And it's the first coach I ever worked in. It was less than a year old when I joined up. I miss that car, a lot!

Any chance that car had a nickname like "Rudolph?" :haha:
 

lotsofbars

Member
Jul 20, 2010
1,999
NYC, New York
JohnMarcson said:
. . . lightbars mid level on fire apparatus (Syracuse).

Having grown up about 1/3 in Syracuse, I can say that the old yellow KME's and E-Ones with Code 3 XL's on front looked pretty cool. The basic setup was the lightbar below the windshield, two beacons on the back, an opticom, and alternating flashers in the headlight clusters and on the roof. Not very good for side warning at all, but really got the job done on the front. My city got an old reserve truck from Syracuse a couple years back with this setup while we were waiting for new apparattus. Never decided whether I liked it or hated it.


Most of the trucks with lightbars *only* on the front have been retired, but the tradition of slapping a minibar onto the front still goes strong, as all the new Sutphen trucks and engines that Syracuse has gotten have mini Freedoms in r/w on the front. Also, Syracuse has started using the Q again!
 

Bill Boyd

Member
Jul 6, 2010
237
Avon, NY
Steve0625 said:
This '71 Cadi had a nice red FB1 out on the nose of the hood. The backside of the dome was painted black, but it was still pretty effective for intersection warning.

ai920.photobucket.com_albums_ad42_Steve_Collins_MiscEMS_71CadiMillerMeteorERVAC449.jpg


And it's the first coach I ever worked in. It was less than a year old when I joined up. I miss that car, a lot!


ER?
 

Steve0625

Member
Jun 23, 2010
1,213
Northville NY
Bill Boyd said:

Oh, yeah! The emblem on the door didn't photograph very well in the bright sunlight and the pic is a bit faded after 35 years. Here's a better image of the emblem.


ai920.photobucket.com_albums_ad42_Steve_Collins_MiscEMS_ERVAC2.jpg


I'd love to find that old car and bring it back to its former glory.
 
May 27, 2010
155
Lebanon PA
THe Goodwill Fire Company of Lebanon PA had a Seagraves with Firebeams on the front bumper, Omnly 1 or 2 ambulance had them as far as i remember. I one I am most familar with was a 1968 International Pick up chassis (flatbed) that I owned. I frenched a bluw Whelen Responder into the grill. Front warning great, side none. Seemed to move traffic great the few times I got to use it. Looking for pictures to scan into puter.
 

Bill Boyd

Member
Jul 6, 2010
237
Avon, NY
Steve0625 said:
Oh, yeah! The emblem on the door didn't photograph very well in the bright sunlight and the pic is a bit faded after 35 years. Here's a better image of the emblem.

ai920.photobucket.com_albums_ad42_Steve_Collins_MiscEMS_ERVAC2.jpg


I'd love to find that old car and bring it back to its former glory.


Wow I just took a guess.....I recognized the building from 10 or 12 years ago when I went on a few dates with a member of ER....can't even remember her name, so it wasn't that memorable......
 

Ipuvaepe

Member
Jun 25, 2011
884
Southeast Pennsylvania
Absolutely love front-mounted rotors. Flashes just don't cut it. Nothing against LEDs, spin them and you're good in my book.

TritonBoulder47 said:
Here's a new HD vid of my Custom Respond-A-Laser...


 

kadetklapp

Member
May 21, 2010
1,568
Indiana
TritonBoulder47 said:
Just so everyone knows, that is NOT actually mounted there... Although, it didn't look bad at all... lol

I sorta dig it. Not too bright in sunlight though...


Maybe a mini-jet or something wouldn't wash out as bad.
 

Respondcode3

Member
May 23, 2010
1,936
Northen Il USA
Our old pierce truck had a whelen rotators that fit in the headlight cluster lights.


I stripped out an old 93 caprice years ago that a department has mounted a red and a blue fireball II with mirrors behind the grille on flat steel brackets.. Those things were beat..
 

Black Hoe

Member
May 21, 2010
427
Long Island, NY
Syracuse FD apparatus had rotators / mini lightbars mounted in the front back in the 70's along with the New York State Yellow paint. I haven't been up there in many years but I am sure that things have changed since.
 

lotsofbars

Member
Jul 20, 2010
1,999
NYC, New York
Black Hoe said:
Syracuse FD apparatus had rotators / mini lightbars mounted in the front back in the 70's along with the New York State Yellow paint. I haven't been up there in many years but I am sure that things have changed since.

Syracuse actually used full Code 3 XL sealed beam lightbars on the front of their apparatus from sometime in the 70's to the 90's. Before that, beacons were commonly placed on the front bumper/fenders of the vehicle and lightbars were also used on the roof. Since the yellow trucks, they've gone back to red and using mini XL's on both the front and the roof. In the most recent years, they've changed to mini Patriot lighbars on the front and roof.
 

lotsofbars

Member
Jul 20, 2010
1,999
NYC, New York
^Perfect example of the fender-mounted beacons. Many trucks were outfitted like this before the lightbars came into use. I've seen a few older trucks with Twinsonics and (believe it or not) Sireno Condors on top as well.
 

Skip Goulet

Member
Feb 23, 2011
4,241
Midland, TX
shues said:
Here's an example that you posted a while back:

[Broken External Image]:http://pembervillefreedomfd.com/images/stories/trucks/778_lg.jpg


And another that Steve0625 replied with:


ai920.photobucket.com_albums_ad42_Steve_Collins_EROE71Cadillac.jpg


There's a little bit of related discussion here: http://elightbars.org/forums/f18/latest-craigslist-snag-8423/

Now that's what I had in mind about mentioning here. The old CRS Co. in McAlester, OK, was fond of cowl-or-fender mounting fireballs on their Type I, II and III ambulances. I have an older Type II built by one of their parent companies, Tulsa Custom Coach. It's a '74 GMC VanDura Type II ambulance that was built for Taloga, OK. It came with Mars beacons on the hightop and DoRay tunnel lights mounted on the sides and rear and single faced DoRays in the grille. But you can see where there was "something" mounted on the front fenders...possibly Fireball lights. C.Ray Smith (now deceased) was also known to mount the big single-faced Unity and Dietz red sealed beams on the front cowls of his ambulances, but it doesn't appear to be so in this case. One ambulance I saw that really stood out was back in '68 when we were in Fall River, MA for my grandma's funeral. This big M-M Lifeliner had the Full-Vue lights on all four corners of the hightop with a Federal 184 mounted center-rear PLUS red Fireballs on the front center. That was nice, but not as unusual as a '70s hightop Caddie that I saw pix of from Nebraska that had a pair of Federal 17s fender mounted. Go figure on that one!
 
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irsa76

Member
May 24, 2010
342
Australia, NSW
My local fire brigade used to run a single red rotator in the center of the grill along with the roof mounted rotators, usually Hella, up until about 2000. To be honest the lower rotator wasn't that effective since it was sitting between a pair of driving lights which flashed with the HLF, I recall at least one truck having the driving lights hooked up so they flashed in an X pattern with the headlights. Can't find a photo of the earlier setup, strangely they retrofitted the older trucks with grill lights.
 

Steve0625

Member
Jun 23, 2010
1,213
Northville NY
Skip Goulet said:
One ambulance I saw that really stood out was back in '68 when we were in Fall River, MA for my grandma's funeral. This big M-M Lifeliner had the Full-Vue lights on all four corners of the hightop with a Federal 184 mounted center-rear PLUS red Fireballs on the front center.

After we bought the blue '71 Cadi pictured above, we sent our '66 Cadillac M-M 48" Volunteer to the body shop for a spruce up and matching paint job (it had been white over red.) When it came back, we added the FB1 on the nose. It had the Full-Vue's on all four corners of the roof, but my memory says the center roof light was a red and white Dietz 2-11 Hill Light. We ran that car as our second-out rig for another 5 years or so. I have dug and dug through my stuff and can not find a pic of it. Another coach I would love to find and restore.
 

MARSMAN

Member
Jun 14, 2011
111
LAS VEGAS NV. USA
We have a whelen mini half bar (like you would see mounted on an ambulance box) mounted just below the windshield of our tower ladder (red/blue).


It helps with forward warning, the roof bars are blocked by the bucket.


If you visit Vegas this is Clark County Truck 18 "Proudly protecting the strip".


When I was up in Carson City NV. Truck 1 had a cear-R/B SD with a stinger on the bumper-really effective.
 

Skip Goulet

Member
Feb 23, 2011
4,241
Midland, TX
Steve0625 said:
After we bought the blue '71 Cadi pictured above, we sent our '66 Cadillac M-M 48" Volunteer to the body shop for a spruce up and matching paint job (it had been white over red.) When it came back, we added the FB1 on the nose. It had the Full-Vue's on all four corners of the roof, but my memory says the center roof light was a red and white Dietz 2-11 Hill Light. We ran that car as our second-out rig for another 5 years or so. I have dug and dug through my stuff and can not find a pic of it. Another coach I would love to find and restore.

I would agree with you, Steve about finding a good coach like that to restore. I have a pair of short-wheel-based Olds ambulances: a '68 and a '69. Both are 99% restored, just haven't had the $$$ to finish everything. One ambulance that I would love to find and reclaim is a '65 Pontiac Consort ambulance that my volunteer service got in 1976 from a private ambulance co. in Lubbock. They used it for a transfer car and backup emergency ambulance; and when they had it, all they had on it was a Federal VisiBar with twin red beacons and a CP25 speaker in the middle, powered by a Director. We bought the car from the private service for $250, but they kept the VisiBar. An ambulance supply co. up in ElDorado, KS was going out of business, so we were able to get a pair of new 175 "hill lights" for $150 (for the pair). So here's what we did: the two 175s went on the front corners, with a Q in the front middle. Between the Q and the two 175s was a pair of red DoRay lollipop lights. And to top it off we put a blue Dietz 211 behind the Q. That made for quite a spectacular light show in its day. It was stolen, along with a '64 Pontiac combo and a '67 hightop Olds ambulance: all three at once back in 1979. Neither the Consort or the big Olds have ever turned up, but I had heard that the '64 had ended up "somewhere" in Michigan, but never anything definite. I'd give anything to get that '65 back, though.
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,971
Northwest Ohio
Here's more...twinsonic and whelen 88s

7708232754_f98b93e949_b.jpg

S1-2.jpg

S1-1.jpg
 
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lotsofbars

Member
Jul 20, 2010
1,999
NYC, New York
JohnMarcson said:
Here's more...twinsonic and whelen 88s

Good god those old Syracuse trucks were ugly . . . the new ones are all a nice red and great. They even repainted the rescue aerial, which is still in service. And is also relevant to this thread. It still has the front-mounted XL but they added a couple new beacons to the cab and rear. Still no side warning, though.


[Broken External Image]:http://cnyfiretrucks.com/gallery/albums/st/SyracuseRA.jpg
 

unityrv26

Member
Mar 4, 2012
391
Michigan
Back when I was a volunteer Sheriff Posse, we used our cars for traffic control. I did the "unmarked" "slicktop" look. I installed wig-wags in the headlights and taillights and put a dashlaser on the front dash, and two firebeams (red/white) with flash mirrors on the rear deck. It was all I needed and very effective. My set up could be seen before some of the guys that had actual lightbars on their roof.
 

Wailer

Member
May 24, 2010
2,294
Canada
Steve0625 said:
This '71 Cadi had a nice red FB1 out on the nose of the hood. The backside of the dome was painted black, but it was still pretty effective for intersection warning.

ai920.photobucket.com_albums_ad42_Steve_Collins_MiscEMS_71CadiMillerMeteorERVAC449.jpg


And it's the first coach I ever worked in. It was less than a year old when I joined up. I miss that car, a lot!


Miller-Meteor Lifeliner ambo.

JohnMarcson said:
Here's more...twinsonic and whelen 88s

The cabs on those two yellow SFD trucks were made by Hendrickson.
 
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Skip Goulet

Member
Feb 23, 2011
4,241
Midland, TX
On another thread I just saw a picture of a neat old '56 Ford station wagon ambulance that had twin RotoRays fender mounted along with tunnel lights, twin 17s and a roof-mounted Q. While that made for spectacular lighting, I wonder how they powered that thing.


I used to see an occasional station wagon ambulance here and there with twin Mars FL8s fender mounted. PCS member Tim Fantin in Indiana recently sold a nice old '65 Cadillac ambulance that came from near Chicago that had twin 888s with clear lenses and colored bulbs fender mounted. The car had the traditional Superior bullet lights on top with, if I remember correctly, a 175 right behind the front set of bullets.


I've also seen pictures of a '48-ish Buick ambulance that had big red tunnel lights with a C6B siren mounted on the front center of the roof and a pair of red PropelloRays fender mounted.


One vehicle that I mentioned on another thread that I was particularly fond of because I helped "design" the warning package was a 1960 Ford sedan-delivery that belonged to Thomas Funeral Home here in Midland. This Ford replaced their '56 Ford sedan-deliver that had been equipped with a lighted (the "F" part of the grille was removed and a truck stop light inserted) Q mounted front center. It was flanked by four red Unity sealed-beam lights and had a 17 behind the Q. They had planned on using the same setup on the new Ford but that didn't happen. One day I just happened up on the place when we were out of school. There set the new Ford, and the oldest Thomas son, Billy, was outside working on the new wagon. He had just gotten the Q mounted and wired. So I asked him how he was going to set up the new rig and he said that they were going to go back the same way the old truck had been, but someone had stolen two of the Unity lights when he had gone inside for a few minutes. So I surveyed the new truck and said to Billy, "Too bad you dont' have a second beacon available" He asked me why so I told him that it would look nice with twin 17s on the front corners of the roof and they could mount the two remaining Unity lights on the front cowl. He got a big grin on his face, ran insie for a minute and came back out toting another red 17. We set both beacons as I had suggested, and that's the way it was equipped. For a short time from 1959 until Fall of 1962 they had gone out of business. When they reopened their first ambulance was a '63 Ford wagon with the twin red 17s on top; but this time the siren was a Federal 78 with the SolaRay light that had replaced the PropelloRays. They eventually added twin red sealed beams in place of the high beams. That car was replaced with a '66 Pontiac wagon. The twin beacons and 78 siren were retained, but the Pontiac was equipped with red Unity lights cowl-mounted. This would be their last station wagon ambulance. From 1967 to 1972 they ran Superior Pontiac Consort ambulances with various light configurations and Federal Interceptors; and except for their '70 Consort that had twin red double-faced spotlights, none of their remaining ambulances would have anything cowl or fender-mounted. But by far their most spectacularly-lit ambulance was a 1970 Pontiac Consort that came with red Superior bullets on the front corners of the roof and a CJ84 beacon/speaker combo just to the rear of front center, powered by an Interceptor. Just after they got this car they added a pair of Sireno GyroRay lights to the roof, just to the inside of the bullet lights, and this car had the twin double-faced spots. Some very neat old ambulances!
 
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stansdds

Member
May 25, 2010
3,540
U.S.A., Virginia

stansdds

Member
May 25, 2010
3,540
U.S.A., Virginia
So Hangover County... errrrrmmm... Hanover County did the same? I did not know that. I like the teardrops on the fenders of that brush jeep.
 

Skip Goulet

Member
Feb 23, 2011
4,241
Midland, TX
Steve0625 said:
This '71 Cadi had a nice red FB1 out on the nose of the hood. The backside of the dome was painted black, but it was still pretty effective for intersection warning.

ai920.photobucket.com_albums_ad42_Steve_Collins_MiscEMS_71CadiMillerMeteorERVAC449.jpg


And it's the first coach I ever worked in. It was less than a year old when I joined up. I miss that car, a lot!

Nice old M-M Lifeliner. For some reason the pix of this car didn't come up when I was on the computer yesterday. We had a 1971 Superior hightop Cadillac that was also a very nice car.


Any idea what kind of siren was on that "blue goose".
 

Skip Goulet

Member
Feb 23, 2011
4,241
Midland, TX
stansdds said:
From the mid-1960's through the 1980's, Henrico County FD (Virginia) put Vitalites at the front corners on or just above the bumper and up high at the rear of their apparatus.

[Broken External Image]:http://www.vafirenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/vafire-T1-62-IH-Oren-Grove-web.jpg


[Broken External Image]:http://www.vafirenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/vafire-E2-68-Oren-web.jpg

Now, the Vitalites were something I really liked. When I was in college I kept a blue Vitalite on my rear deck. My car at the time, a '63 Valiant, already had a pair of red deck lights with blue and ambers in the grille. I had used the car as a mobile news unit for the radio station here in Midland where I had worked as news director since I graduated from high school. Sadly the blue Vitalite became victim of the big tornado that hit Lubbock on May11, 1970. A friend of mine who worked for an ambulance dealer had a '64 Olds ambulance at his house, along with a '67 Olds hearse/ambulance combo. When the dust settled I ended up driving the '64 Olds wagon and he followed in the big combo, using my blue Vitalite on the roof. We lost the Vitalite when he went under a low-hanging limb that knocked the little light off the roof. It was damaged beyond repair, but he was nice enough to replace it for me.


In 1981 we bought a 1973 hightop Suburban ambulance that had been built by Modular Ambulance Corp. The truck came with the usual tunnel lights fore and aft with a big Unity Spitfire beacon up on the hightop. I happened to be prowling thru a big military surplus store up in Plainview one weekend and came across a pair of blue Vitalites. These were the newer version with halogen bulbs and the upgraded magnets. Both of these went on the front corners of the cab. The big tunnel lights in front were mounted high enough that the Vitalites didn't interfere with them. The fire chief from the small town from whence came the Suburban had mounted a flat bar on the frnt bumper of the ambulance, to which he had mounted two small red and one blue flashing sealed beam light. Needless to say we had a nice warning package on that truck. I kept the two Vitalites when we traded the truck off for our first-even Type II van, and a couple of our volunteer firemen ended up with the Vitalites.
 
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Steve0625

Member
Jun 23, 2010
1,213
Northville NY
Skip Goulet said:
Nice old M-M Lifeliner. For some reason the pix of this car didn't come up when I was on the computer yesterday. We had a 1971 Superior hightop Cadillac that was also a very nice car.

Any idea what kind of siren was on that "blue goose".

Federal PA-10 or 15 if I remember correctly. It's been a long time.
 

Tristar

Member
May 24, 2010
899
MA
Steve0625 said:
This '71 Cadi had a nice red FB1 out on the nose of the hood. The backside of the dome was painted black, but it was still pretty effective for intersection warning.

ai920.photobucket.com_albums_ad42_Steve_Collins_MiscEMS_71CadiMillerMeteorERVAC449.jpg


And it's the first coach I ever worked in. It was less than a year old when I joined up. I miss that car, a lot!

If I remember correctly the old National Ambulance in Rochester, NY had a green fireball mounted on the center of the front of the hoods of their Caddy ambulances...at least in the late 70s. I don't remember if they had the same setup on their type II rigs. I think the reason they used green was because it was their corporate color, but I don't know how they got away with it. Steve - does this ring a bell with you?
 

stansdds

Member
May 25, 2010
3,540
U.S.A., Virginia
Skip Goulet said:
Now, the Vitalites were something I really liked. When I was in college I kept a blue Vitalite on my rear deck. My car at the time, a '63 Valiant, already had a pair of red deck lights with blue and ambers in the grille. I had used the car as a mobile news unit for the radio station here in Midland where I had worked as news director since I graduated from high school. Sadly the blue Vitalite became victim of the big tornado that hit Lubbock on May11, 1970. A friend of mine who worked for an ambulance dealer had a '64 Olds ambulance at his house, along with a '67 Olds hearse/ambulance combo. When the dust settled I ended up driving the '64 Olds wagon and he followed in the big combo, using my blue Vitalite on the roof. We lost the Vitalite when he went under a low-hanging limb that knocked the little light off the roof. It was damaged beyond repair, but he was nice enough to replace it for me.

In 1981 we bought a 1973 hightop Suburban ambulance that had been built by Modular Ambulance Corp. The truck came with the usual tunnel lights fore and aft with a big Unity Spitfire beacon up on the hightop. I happened to be prowling thru a big military surplus store up in Plainview one weekend and came across a pair of blue Vitalites. These were the newer version with halogen bulbs and the upgraded magnets. Both of these went on the front corners of the cab. The big tunnel lights in front were mounted high enough that the Vitalites didn't interfere with them. The fire chief from the small town from whence came the Suburban had mounted a flat bar on the frnt bumper of the ambulance, to which he had mounted two small red and one blue flashing sealed beam light. Needless to say we had a nice warning package on that truck. I kept the two Vitalites when we traded the truck off for our first-even Type II van, and a couple of our volunteer firemen ended up with the Vitalites.

Yeah, Skip, the Vitalite was and is a good secondary warning light and good mounted on dashboards or package shelves of vehicles if there is sufficient vertical space. Back in the day, the Vitalite was also Fed Sig's least expensive rotating light at 2/3 the price of a Fireball.
 

Steve0625

Member
Jun 23, 2010
1,213
Northville NY
Tristar said:
If I remember correctly the old National Ambulance in Rochester, NY had a green fireball mounted on the center of the front of the hoods of their Caddy ambulances...at least in the late 70s. I don't remember if they had the same setup on their type II rigs. I think the reason they used green was because it was their corporate color, but I don't know how they got away with it. Steve - does this ring a bell with you?

You're pretty much right. George Heisel Jr. did a lot of experimenting back then so things weren't exactly uniform from rig to rig. The Type II's sometimes had one red FB one one fender and a green one on the other.


I worked full time for NA the end of '75 and early '76 before the City hired me as a civie dispatcher for RPD. Good times all around.
 

delcofirecop

Member
Jul 22, 2012
232
usa pa
when i was a kid we have a vollie squad in philly where i grew up it was a community ambulance they had some cool rigs. one had a code 3 xl fullsize in the front on the box a mini on the rear of the box and two tear drops on the front fenders it was a ford f350box. it also had 2red flashers with a white middle on on the sides of the fenders in a triple mount they were a bit smaller than par36 bulbs. one rig had the same front light bar with just flashers on the box but it had 4 dual beam bubble gums on the box roof one in each corner they we.re clear lenses with one clear and one red bulb each. and one rig had a red whelen strobe on each corner of the box on the roof and they all had the tradtional powercall a staple in the philly area for years.
 

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