The All New Whelen Legacy...

FEVER said:
An effective light setup for a patrol car does not only consist of a Lightbar. It doesn't matter how bright or feature packed it is. I would rather get a cheaper light bar with more if what I need around my vehicle
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I disagree. 90% of the police agencies in my area run just a lightbar, HLF and TLF. I'd put their cruisers up against anything on this site in terms of effectiveness. Sometimes simple is better, especially when coupled with good flash patterns.
 
I disagree fever. If you have all cheapo secondary warning lights a good quality lightbar is 10 times more effective. Yes intersection lights are nice but many police agencies still run just a bar. I have sold to several that run nothing but bars and have no issues.
 
firefighter7017 said:
I disagree. 90% of the police agencies in my area run just a lightbar, HLF and TLF. I'd put their cruisers up against anything on this site in terms of effectiveness. Sometimes simple is better, especially when coupled with good flash patterns.
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This is where using a vehicle as a firefighter is different than as LEO. A patrol vehicle is a tactical tool for us as much as it is a way for us to get from point A to point B.


How about proper intersection and side lighting? My agency runs a lightbar as standard issue only.


Headlight flashers on an Impala (and HAWS in headlight housing) are pointless in the Impala. Our Deputies are often left to block off lanes of traffic by themselves. One light bar from the side is not nearly effective. Is it visible? Yes... is it safe no.


I have added several lights to my vehicle that have GREATLY enhanced my safety. Both while dealing with traffic and while dealing outside of traffic. I have enough scene lights at multiple angles that I can effectively park my car facing a house, exit my car, circle the residence, and come up from behind the people walking out of their front door without them ever seeing me. It has given me a tactical advantage on numerous occasions.


A lightbar alone would not do that. A lightbar alone does not give enough driving light to avoid certain hazards in some of the areas we patrol. The total minimum amount of time I drive "code" each shift is 2.5 hours. I can assure you I am MUCH safer with strategically placed lighting. That being said, I would want quality lights, however; if my budget is $4,000 I wouldn't be as safe with just a $4,000 lightbar.


The legacy is a beautiful bar... and if i had the money, I can't say I wouldn't like to have one. But I don't :)
 
911 said:
come on, the nypd doesnt throw bars out anymore......... you can take it to fleet services or that fed sig repair place in queens on metropolitan and they will fix or replace it...........
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This is true . . . a vast majority of patrol cars here have at least a few lights out. However, I've seen some pretty interesting configurations with the older Vision SL's and the other lights. Mismatched domes on the lightbar and differently-colored modules are sometimes apparent, and I've even seen a patrol car or two with a blue SL head to the front. I've also seen a mix of the older red/white rear deck lights with newer red/blue deck lights. Perhaps the oddest thing I saw was on an Impala with a blue LAW in the passenger side hideaway position. I think it was also missing a headlight or two and its rear deck lights didn't work aside for one red module. Pretty sorry state but it's typical here.
 
Strobesnmore said:
The Liberty was pricey when it first came out and its gone down. One thing I will note is some customers buy cheap bars, cheap grill lights, cheap dash light whereas you can spend more and get a good quality bar that cost the same overall and is brighter than all those lights put together.
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...Or you could get a lightbar that costs the same as that Chinese junk, yet is more visible and more reliable, and have money left over for intersection lights and a few other goodies.
 
LoneStar has the SLR price for $3,800 loaded so I would guess a departments cost on it would be any where from $2,500-$3,000.


But remember the Legacy bar is to compete with the Valor.
 
Strobesnmore said:
Pdk9, that's the 38% off list price which is the lowest we are allowed to advertise. We can sell it for whatever we want just cant show a price lower in print.
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I was about to chime in with this exact statement that I think some folks don't realize. This bar is too new to start setting promotional pricing or any other "special" pricing for for that matter. Louis is showing the pricing he is allowed to show based on MSRP. That being said, this also won't be a bid winning low cost lightbar. This is a high end, very rbight, very effective product with a ton of technology. Like anything else, it will suit the needs of many, but not all.
 
Quentin said:
But remember the Legacy bar is to compete with the Valor.
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I am not sure who started this and why, but the Whelen Legacy was NOT designed specifically to compete with the Valor in any way SHAPE or form.
 
Outsider said:
I am not sure who started this and why, but the Whelen Legacy was NOT designed specifically to compete with the Valor in any way SHAPE or form.
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Just watching the video made me think this. How it changes color as in no dark time and the flood mode.
 
Strobesnmore said:
I disagree fever. If you have all cheapo secondary warning lights a good quality lightbar is 10 times more effective. Yes intersection lights are nice but many police agencies still run just a bar. I have sold to several that run nothing but bars and have no issues.
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Louis... I guess I should have clarified a little. If I can get say a Justice bar (w/Lin6 and SXSTD's) and then some quality secondary lighting in key places... I'll take that over spending my entire $4,000 budget on one light bar.
 
I agree; impressive bar, but 4k is a looot of money, especially for tax-funded public services.


However, when comparing the specs and price of such a lightbar to a lesser bar with additional workslights, TDs and TAs etc, do anyone take workhours into account?


Example:


One 3-4K legacy + two linz6 (mounted in grill or on PB @ 45 degree) + limited wiring/mounting-work.


vs


One 1-2K lightbar + grills + front intersection + decklights + TA + TDs + worklights + extensive wiring/mounting-work.


Would be interesting to see how the two bills compare....
 
FEVER said:
This is where using a vehicle as a firefighter is different than as LEO. A patrol vehicle is a tactical tool for us as much as it is a way for us to get from point A to point B.

How about proper intersection and side lighting? My agency runs a lightbar as standard issue only.


Headlight flashers on an Impala (and HAWS in headlight housing) are pointless in the Impala. Our Deputies are often left to block off lanes of traffic by themselves. One light bar from the side is not nearly effective. Is it visible? Yes... is it safe no.


I have added several lights to my vehicle that have GREATLY enhanced my safety. Both while dealing with traffic and while dealing outside of traffic. I have enough scene lights at multiple angles that I can effectively park my car facing a house, exit my car, circle the residence, and come up from behind the people walking out of their front door without them ever seeing me. It has given me a tactical advantage on numerous occasions.


A lightbar alone would not do that. A lightbar alone does not give enough driving light to avoid certain hazards in some of the areas we patrol. The total minimum amount of time I drive "code" each shift is 2.5 hours. I can assure you I am MUCH safer with strategically placed lighting. That being said, I would want quality lights, however; if my budget is $4,000 I wouldn't be as safe with just a $4,000 lightbar.


The legacy is a beautiful bar... and if i had the money, I can't say I wouldn't like to have one. But I don't :)
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While I can see your points and agree with them, I still think that you can have an effective warning pattern with what I listed. Yes, you may lose some of the tactical advantages you mentioned, but as far as running code, (which was my reasoning behind the statement) you will be fine.


The departments here run Vic's and Chargers. Even NC SHP run's very simple setups. I'm not saying that it's the best idea around, or that it could not be improved upon, but I do believe that it is a very effective setup which still covers all your angles.
 
I've used cars with just a light bar and I've used ones with an excessive number of lights. While just a bar was more effective then I thought it would be, I still noticed more people yielded to the cars with more then just a bar, esp at intersections. The most effective setup I've had was an Impala with an 8 head Patriot bar, HLF/TLF, dual viper dash light, rear deck traffic adviser, and LIN4's on the side of the push bumper.
 
firefighter7017 said:
While I can see your points and agree with them, I still think that you can have an effective warning pattern with what I listed. Yes, you may lose some of the tactical advantages you mentioned, but as far as running code, (which was my reasoning behind the statement) you will be fine.

The departments here run Vic's and Chargers. Even NC SHP run's very simple setups. I'm not saying that it's the best idea around, or that it could not be improved upon, but I do believe that it is a very effective setup which still covers all your angles.
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Here is the thing though... most agencies that are doing that are only doing so because of budget restraints. Do you think if they had the 4k budget that they would only run that set up and blow their wad on one lightbar?


For the agencies with tons of cash to blow and can drop the 4k wihtout batting an I, I say go with that. But a light bar alone is not gonna be adequate when that lightbar is hidden behind a box van and all that is visible is front facing lights. Runing headlight flashers alone won't cut it (front or rear), especially with the design of the lamps on certain vehicles these days. having some color up there is what is going to give you the right of way (in Florida at least), not just white.


dammit man... i am drooling over the video of the legacy though. it is sexy
 
firefighter7017 said:
While I can see your points and agree with them, I still think that you can have an effective warning pattern with what I listed. Yes, you may lose some of the tactical advantages you mentioned, but as far as running code, (which was my reasoning behind the statement) you will be fine.

The departments here run Vic's and Chargers. Even NC SHP run's very simple setups. I'm not saying that it's the best idea around, or that it could not be improved upon, but I do believe that it is a very effective setup which still covers all your angles.
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The NC highway patrol setups suck and need to be vastly improved upon. Also allot of agencies down here have no idea how to setup a car. Pitt county is finally starting to figure out just a lightbar isn't cutting it any more and putting some intersection and other lights on their cars. It will only be a matter of time before other agencies start to catch on.
 
Also I guess being this a thread about the Legacy I will say it is a very cool bar but, I have no need of it and for the price could do something with allot more lights and be better off.
 
for me it's very expensive to spend $ 4,300 on one thing, with that money I can do a complete setup to the vehicle, I understand it's a new technology and bright, but still remains very expensive
 
GPC said:
The NC highway patrol setups suck and need to be vastly improved upon. Also allot of agencies down here have no idea how to setup a car. Pitt county is finally starting to figure out just a lightbar isn't cutting it any more and putting some intersection and other lights on their cars. It will only be a matter of time before other agencies start to catch on.
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While they aren't the best, I wouldn't say they suck. Seem to be working pretty good actually. Simple can be better. Everything can be improved upon. Nothing is perfect. But there's no need for any vehicle to have $4,000 worth of light's on it.

FEVER said:
Here is the thing though... most agencies that are doing that are only doing so because of budget restraints. Do you think if they had the 4k budget that they would only run that set up and blow their wad on one lightbar?

For the agencies with tons of cash to blow and can drop the 4k wihtout batting an I, I say go with that. But a light bar alone is not gonna be adequate when that lightbar is hidden behind a box van and all that is visible is front facing lights. Runing headlight flashers alone won't cut it (front or rear), especially with the design of the lamps on certain vehicles these days. having some color up there is what is going to give you the right of way (in Florida at least), not just white.


dammit man... i am drooling over the video of the legacy though. it is sexy
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I can agree with this. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to justify a $4,000 lightbar. I'd honestly like to think that a department that could afford to put one of these on every car would buy cheaper lights and hire more cops instead, but that is my fantasy world.


I'm just arguing the point that a lightbar and HLF can get the job done. I'm not saying the best, I'm not saying it's perfect or couldn't be improved upon. I'm saying that its the bare essentials, and it works. The other lights are nice, but you don't have to have them. Do they have their advantages? Definatley. I'm not advocating that everyone ditch all their lights and just run the basics. Just saying that a lightbar and HLF alone is an effective warning package.
 
firefighter7017 said:
While they aren't the best, I wouldn't say they suck. Seem to be working pretty good actually. Simple can be better. Everything can be improved upon. Nothing is perfect. But there's no need for any vehicle to have $4,000 worth of light's on it.
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Yes they do suck especially the slicktops. Two dual avengers on the rear deck isn't cutting it especially with them angled like they are. The only thing that is the okay are the new chargers with the newer Libertys on them and the charger TLF.
 
Whelen should consider and review the price of this lightbar, only public entities can purchase these products, I assure you that 98% of people would not buy the legacy lightbars, it's my opinion..
 
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i just paid $10,000 for my Legacy. :duh: Now $4k sounds like a deal! :suicide:
 
Storm4200 said:
i just paid $10,000 for my Legacy. :duh: Now $4k sounds like a deal! :suicide:
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I want to know what you are getting for $10K.
 
I do have to say, as much as I love lights, Pennsylvania State Police has used Hlf and a vision/liberty for decades, and they work well. Look at MSP, they still use a single beacon on the roof, and whatever else. It is personal preference at this point. I always thought more was better, however I have always liked to pic the middle of the road. I look at some set-up with grill lights, and deck lights, and lights on the push bar, and strobes or leds in the taillights, and what is or is not a distraction?


Look at New Jersey state police: Liberty lightbar, tir 3 on the license plate, strobes in the corner marker lights, and a HLF on some cars. I think that is effective.


Now can we get back on topic, and discuss the bar, not the value. Stop discussing the price of an effective lighting set-up because the real topic is about a new lightbar. Lets talk more about specs, and abilities, and ect. If you don't want to spend $4300 on a legacy, then don't buy one. If you can or you want to buy one then great, then do it. The price should not matter. it is about what the bar can and can not do, and if it means it works with your set-up. No one complains about ordering a $5,000+ NFPA lighting set-up. No one complains about the price of the Valor, or the SLR. It is what it is. Now lets hear more about the Legacy, I'm stoked.
 
fleetcomm said:
I want to know what you are getting for $10K.
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something stiff where the sun doesnt shine.... He got the no lube model too!
 
poesdad said:
Well gentlemen, at $4300 each, that definitely rules me out. I don't see any way of justifying that cost for a lightbar to my bosses, or the public for that matter. I remember paying around $1700 for our fully loaded liberty bars.
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A large Whelen distributor here in Canada has been selling fully loaded Liberty bars for $1250 for about 5-6 years.
 
runesson said:
I agree; impressive bar, but 4k is a looot of money, especially for tax-funded public services.

However, when comparing the specs and price of such a lightbar to a lesser bar with additional workslights, TDs and TAs etc, do anyone take workhours into account?


Example:


One 3-4K legacy + two linz6 (mounted in grill or on PB @ 45 degree) + limited wiring/mounting-work.


vs


One 1-2K lightbar + grills + front intersection + decklights + TA + TDs + worklights + extensive wiring/mounting-work.


Would be interesting to see how the two bills compare....
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Good point, I hadn't thought of things this way. Any installers care to share their thoughts?
 
Anyone questioning the need for intersection warning, watch the beginning of the video. Situations like this is why it is important. This is a demo car lit up like a Christmas tree but none of it matters when it is blocked by another vehicle.


Not an installer, but every bar has TDs and alleys and wires have to be run to the front and rear of the vehicle for the siren brain and speaker so it isn't all that much work to add those other lights.
 
acala91 said:
Not an installer, but every bar has TDs and alleys and wires have to be run to the front and rear of the vehicle for the siren brain and speaker so it isn't all that much work to add those other lights.
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Depends on the vehicle, what wiring came from the factory, and the layout of the overall install. Sometimes its easy to throw in the extra wiring, other times it can add quite a bit to the process.


In other news....my Whelen rep stopped by today with the new Legacy bar. I could go on and on about how great this bar is, but everyone has covered that already. The off-axis warning is amazing to me and that in itself would be enough for me to justify the added expense when needed. Overall design is light-years ahead of the Edge/Freedom/Patriot/Liberty bars. Even if this isn't the bar for everyone it's design will certainly lead to new product standards that will benefit us all. I took a couple videos and pictures for personal reference but honestly they don't do the bar any justice at all.
 
Andy L. said:
Depends on the vehicle, what wiring came from the factory, and the layout of the overall install. Sometimes its easy to throw in the extra wiring, other times it can add quite a bit to the process.


In other news....my Whelen rep stopped by today with the new Legacy bar. I could go on and on about how great this bar is, but everyone has covered that already. The off-axis warning is amazing to me and that in itself would be enough for me to justify the added expense when needed. Overall design is light-years ahead of the Edge/Freedom/Patriot/Liberty bars. Even if this isn't the bar for everyone it's design will certainly lead to new product standards that will benefit us all. I took a couple videos and pictures for personal reference but honestly they don't do the bar any justice at all.
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Make with the media ;)
 
I thought there was supposed to be no "dead spots"? maybe just poor quality video?
 
got_ygurt said:
Nice! can't say I like any of the flash patterns, but luckily with wecan you could make your own.
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The WeCan module that came with the bar was pre-loaded for demo's basically so it cycled through all the patterns. I didn't record all of them, but yes, with WeCan you could make it look great.


The all bar steady white was very impressive as well.
 
FEVER said:
I thought there was supposed to be no "dead spots"? maybe just poor quality video?
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I was thinking the same thing before I saw your post. The reviews from people that have seen this bar in person have all been on-par, so I am assuming it has something to do with the video.
 
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