Quentin
Member
The All New Whelen Legacy...
- Thread starter firedude
- Start date
JohnMarcson
Administrator
grfd711
Member
I'm not all impressed with this bar based upon what I've seen online. I may change my mind if I ever see one in person.
FGS
Member
Pseudo-rotator LED Delta bar? Really Whelen? :duh: A knock off of a Chinese beacon with same pseudo-rotator LEDs? :hopeless:
Whelen, you have one more chance to make a home run with the Revolution. Legacy's paper thin bar? Fail. Delta's pseudo rotators? Fail.
Bonus are the replacement domes for your REAL rotator Deltas will still be made. :thumbsup: Whelen better have include colored domes!
Whelen, you have one more chance to make a home run with the Revolution. Legacy's paper thin bar? Fail. Delta's pseudo rotators? Fail.
Bonus are the replacement domes for your REAL rotator Deltas will still be made. :thumbsup: Whelen better have include colored domes!
No no no, Whelen did not copy knockoffs, they just didn't release these bars on time and the China companies knocked them off once again.... Hahahahahaha so much for them being "original", cough cough... ion... cough cough...........
Sigma Safety
Member
The PDF is interesting;
"many patents pending" - cute
- "Draws up to 2 amps per lighthead" - so that means the bar would draw about 20 amps, assuming half the LEDs are on at any given point? That's 2x what it should draw.
- "Built-In Low Power default setting via photocell is certified Class 1" - I assume they mean SAE J2498 Class 1. If they're saying that the "dim" mode meets class 1, that will be disappointing to most people. You will barely, if at all, notice a difference between full power and dim.
"many patents pending" - cute
leftcoastmark said:
It appears that the first part of the video is done in low power, and later changes to full power. I like the photocell concept, but I am curious to see how much the bar actually dims. This is one of the Legend's weak points, is being too bright at night. If you can call being too bright a weak point...
Photocell is nothing new, my defender came with the photocell switching option and it's almost 3 years old now.
I'm not a huge fan cause when i'm running code at night i want the bar on full brightness then when im stationary i'd dim it.
Very patriotic the red/white/blue lightbar. Reminds me a lot of the blade by Tomar
I'm not a huge fan cause when i'm running code at night i want the bar on full brightness then when im stationary i'd dim it.
Very patriotic the red/white/blue lightbar. Reminds me a lot of the blade by Tomar
That delta would have been more impressive if they just would have put 5 L31's in it, at least that would have looked cooler. Time will tell. The legacy really doesn't look that great. I hope that Liberty and Freedom out sell it.
Sigma Safety
Member
acs680 said:
We have a large client who buys Legends, and has a requirement to meet J2498 (the "whole vehicle") Class1 spec when in "night" mode (dim). FedSig made special dimming software so it would just barely meet Class 1 when dimmed.
You can barely notice the bar dim at all when you hit the "low power" switch. We warned them about it but they felt they wanted Class 1 minimum at all times, for liability. Most people can't tell the difference between the full power and the dim setting. It just kind of takes the "edge" off the intensity, but that's about it. Normally, the "dim" mode on the Legend is dramatically lower intensity than full power.
My point is that if Whelen is making it meet Class 1 even when dimmed, you won't be able to tell that the bar has even been put in "dim" mode. I wonder if they're just saying that on their PDF but don't really realize what they're saying.
ff168577
Member
I have spent a lot of time looking at these "new" products, and I have to say as huge whelen person, I am very disappointed. The delta is just sad. It looks like an amature fest. I am not sure if it is the photo of it with the multi-colors or what it is. Maybe in person, it will be better but I am not optimistic. The legacy really leaves no legacy. It is not anything outstanding. It reminds me of the Galaxy, Fenix, and Blade put together. I would like to say it will but what is so dynamic to it? Legacy should have been something that was original but there is nothing original about it. I would take a liberty and freedom over this thing. I like the point of no gaps, and continues light coverage but the defender, valor, justice(better then the liberty for coverage), all have these items. I wish Whelen would have come out with duo Lin6's for regular sale or duo ions. I think this was whelen's idea of just trying to release new products because they have not done so in a while. Just my opinion but like I said, I am not impressed.
Mark, is FedSig showing anything at this show? Nothing against Whelen, but I'm actually surprised by the amount of attention they're getting versus other manufacturers. Heck, Code 3 is supposed to show three new lightbars, and the only thing I heard from them is the discontinuation of the 2100 lightbar.
Regarding the comment by the gentleman about the simulated rotators in the Delta, those LED towers had me fooled: I really thought it was an actual rotator. I don't think the L31 beacons would have accomplished that effect. Whelen must be using specialized TIR optics to accomplish that pop effect that their beacons do not have.
Regarding the comment by the gentleman about the simulated rotators in the Delta, those LED towers had me fooled: I really thought it was an actual rotator. I don't think the L31 beacons would have accomplished that effect. Whelen must be using specialized TIR optics to accomplish that pop effect that their beacons do not have.
JohnMarcson
Administrator
I understand that we at least have general shape and setup info on these new bars...... but I'm actually a little surprised at how much in depth debate there has been before we have actually had a chance to see more than one pic of each. Some of the discussion here made it seem like you guys had actually seen this bar in person.... I had to go back and reread to see that this was all based off the pics and short debut vid.
JohnMarcson said:
This. No one really knows what this bar is capable of.
Physically, lightbars are about maxed out. They're obscenely bright, they change colors, and they're thinner and smaller than they really should be---physically, what else do you want? Short of inventing a new light source to replace the LED, there isn't much more you can do. Any technological advances that you see in the coming years are going to be primarily in functionality, programming...the ones and zeroes.
As for the seamless lighthead comments, I don't see the point. Stand more than 30' from a Liberty or Freedom and you won't even notice the 1/4" 'gaps' between the lightheads due to light blossoming---and if you do, it'll be a hot second before you sear your retinas. Sure it might be more aesthetically pleasing up close to have seamless lightheads, but it does virtually nothing in terms of real world effectiveness.
JohnMarcson
Administrator
C420sailor said:
Exactly......At this point I spec and buy lightbars based on size, price and control features. You are right, the basic design as far as shape and form are about to the point where they all look pretty similar. I like to wait and evaluate bars based on functions and price.
I know people like to debate the new products, but we can't really tell much about this bar yet. It looks like a low profile modern LED bar, beyond that all other discussion isn't going to mean much until we get our hands on it.
hawkspringsfire
Member
I like it. I can't stand the Blade, but that's not a function of its size. It's got decent linear forward and rear lighting, but it uses terrible narrow-beam TIR-style LEDs for 360-degree warning, and the constantly-changing flash pattern used by cops in my area is pretty lousy. Not to mention that it fits quite well in TOMAR's lineup of stupidly ugly products, by which I mean almost all of them*.
The Legacy, on the other hand, is all-linear, and it appears to have consistent flash patterns. Most of Whelen's flash patterns are pretty good, but they only worked with a single lighthead, or multiple synchronized lightheads. FedSig has for some time now had flash patterns that involve the whole lightbar, with each lighthead used independently, but I don't much like most of them - now we'll see what Whelen can do. And since the visible exterior surfaces (i.e. not the very top and bottom) are all lenses, rather than the exposed frame, it'll probably look pretty cool.
*Their strobe and halogen lightheads and Police Light II dash light are decent. All of their lightbars and all of their LED products aren't.
The Legacy, on the other hand, is all-linear, and it appears to have consistent flash patterns. Most of Whelen's flash patterns are pretty good, but they only worked with a single lighthead, or multiple synchronized lightheads. FedSig has for some time now had flash patterns that involve the whole lightbar, with each lighthead used independently, but I don't much like most of them - now we'll see what Whelen can do. And since the visible exterior surfaces (i.e. not the very top and bottom) are all lenses, rather than the exposed frame, it'll probably look pretty cool.
*Their strobe and halogen lightheads and Police Light II dash light are decent. All of their lightbars and all of their LED products aren't.
I'm just gonna throw this out there. I like the sweep towers, but I don't really care for the Delta itself. If Whelen were to offer the sweep towers in the Centurion, perhaps with four towers with corresponding mirrors, I'd go for that. The options typically available in the lower section of the Centurion would remain unchanged.
The thing with this new Delta, it's way too much. It's nice with the technology, but it's way too much. Don't need that much warning in one lightbar.
The thing with this new Delta, it's way too much. It's nice with the technology, but it's way too much. Don't need that much warning in one lightbar.
cbpdogboy
Member
Sigma Safety
Member
Kevin K. said:
FedSig has a big display down there, but I assume you're talking about brand new stuff. My understanding is that they have the new Spectralux (tri-colour modules) front and rear ILS there in a car. I don't believe there is anything else brand new. They have released a number of new items recently (CN-Signalmasters, PA300-CN, even IPX6) but I believe the new ILS is going to be the current release. No new rooftop lightbars or anything.
If you haven't seen the CN-Signalmasters yet, they're pretty slick. Tri-colour modules, and the 8-head version is 31" long, and you can get a 4-head front-facing module, too. They've only been shipping it for a month or so, but I believe New Mexico State Police has a few hundred in the back of their Tahoes now. We have a couple up here but not installed yet.
I wasn't able to attend IACP this year, though I'll be at Copswest in 2 weeks, and always on the lookout for new stuff from any manufacturer.
go to whelen.com and click on the banner on the top of their home page for pictures and some details regarding the Legacy, the "rotating" Delta and other new products.
What I see with the Legacy is a culmination of all that has been learned with LED lightbars since their introduction. The Legacy looks to be a balance between size and light footprint, number of LEDs and brightness, as well as a showpiece for Whelen's in-house production capability and versatility (as I witnessed first hand in May). I for one am glad to see them break the Liberty mold, as it had been leveraged to the max, IMO.
I think that dual and triple color lightbars are clearly the major manufacturers' focus and maybe all that is produced at some point...they simply stock one multi-color module and "activate" the color options based on your order and $$$. This is similar to what is already done with many electronic products, software, and even cars (which typically have the wiring and connections for add-ons already on board). This would result in a cost savings by reducing inventory and the number of manufacturing cycles they had to tool-up for and schedule. Even though the modules themselves might cost a bit more to make, they could save money by making and stocking fewer variants.
The Legacy also looks to capitalize on something Federal Signal figured out several years ago (IMO)...total-bar synchronization increases perceived light output. I believe, and have stated here before, that the Legend bar seems so bright in large part due to its use of this type of patterning, vs paired lightheads.
I also agree that the speculation, love/hate posts, and 7-page thread about a product that next to nothing is known about is a bit ridiculous. But that hasn't stopped these kinds of threads in the past, and seldom is anything said about the futility of it.
Anyway, good job Whelen, glad to see things moving forward.
I think that dual and triple color lightbars are clearly the major manufacturers' focus and maybe all that is produced at some point...they simply stock one multi-color module and "activate" the color options based on your order and $$$. This is similar to what is already done with many electronic products, software, and even cars (which typically have the wiring and connections for add-ons already on board). This would result in a cost savings by reducing inventory and the number of manufacturing cycles they had to tool-up for and schedule. Even though the modules themselves might cost a bit more to make, they could save money by making and stocking fewer variants.
The Legacy also looks to capitalize on something Federal Signal figured out several years ago (IMO)...total-bar synchronization increases perceived light output. I believe, and have stated here before, that the Legend bar seems so bright in large part due to its use of this type of patterning, vs paired lightheads.
I also agree that the speculation, love/hate posts, and 7-page thread about a product that next to nothing is known about is a bit ridiculous. But that hasn't stopped these kinds of threads in the past, and seldom is anything said about the futility of it.
Anyway, good job Whelen, glad to see things moving forward.
leftcoastmark said:
Basically what you are stating is that the Legend, even in full power barely meets Class 1. If you can't really tell the difference between full power and low power and low power meets Class1, then it would be safe to assume that full power barely meets Class 1, right? The new Whelen Legacy lightbar is Class 1 certified in low power, and there is a HUGE difference in intensity between high and low. The way this is achieved this is actually fairly simple and it is the way Whelen has accomplished this for many years. Our Engineers thought outside the box. They do that well.
This is a VERY intense lightbar. Keep that in mind. The videos that are popping up everywhere, don't really do this Justice. <-- Pun intended. This lightbar is incredibly BRIGHT! Also keep in mind, the only ones built at this time are protoypes that are still somewhat rough when it comes to fit and finish.
hawkspringsfire
Member
That Whelen Charger is really nice. No split heads, everything is synced, and slow patterns. A +++
Quentin
Member
Now that I have seen this last video with the close up it really looks like a knock off of a Blade or a China light......
Jman423
Administrator
Stuart, thanks for the video... but for the love of god, stop spinning the camera around!! :duh:
Hey. If Whelen's introducing a superslim lightbar with new linear optics... surely they'll offer the same optics as a dashlight, or a standalone lighthead? Seems likely methinks.
FS recently introduced upgraded optics that improve the bar's Class 1 compliance. http://www.fedsig.com/pdf/MU437_Legend_Improved_Performance.pdf...That doesn't help bars with the older optics though, of course.Outsider said:
FGS
Member
Stuart oughta put a warning on the vid that the Legacy's flashes would cause seizures in some people.
I agree with MEVS06, the Legacy do look like a knock off bar of a Blade. :duh:
I agree with MEVS06, the Legacy do look like a knock off bar of a Blade. :duh:
FGS said:
No, the Blade looks like a lousy knockoff of the Legacy. TOMAR couldn't even manage to get 360-degree visibility with linear lights out of the thing!
Sigma Safety
Member
Outsider said:
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. The Legend meets over double the Class 1 cd-s/m numbers (no other bar met the test standard, I might add) in regular mode and with this particular customer's special programming, meets Class 1 in low power mode. In the lab, there is a big difference (if you look at the numbers) between high and low power, but visually you can barely detect it.
I'm not sure what you mean by "the way this was achieved". How did your engineers achieve it? It's either dimmer or it isn't.
I actually think it's a nice looking bar. I'm not sure what the guy in the Sirennet video meant when he said that those 4 screws were the only ones in bar. Clearly there are 2 more inboard, plus 6 more on the passenger side (12 total, not 4). However, I'm not a Whelen guy but I think it looks good on the exterior. It'd be fun to see what it looks like inside, but I would expect it's probably not perfect inside since it is a prototype.
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emtanderson51
Member
firedude said:
After watching the videos I think anyone who thiks this light bar isn't going to take over is completely nuts........or very, very jealous....this bar is absolutely incredible. Just because you can't afford it doesn't mean it doesn't fit the bill for an agency who wants a sick light bar, American made, with a 5 year warranty that you probably won't need to use. If for some reason it doesn't fit the bill.....it's only because the Liberty is "just too good".....After all, the Liberty, based on price, design, construction and end user ease of use, is by far and away, the best light bar ever made. The Legend sucks.......none of our current Legend bars meet class 1 on the corners FYI....this is a fact. We are expecting our replacements sometime before Christmas......we'll see...Maybe someday FS will bring their manufacturing back to the US and compete.
leftcoastmark said:
What I mean is, the four corners of this and ALL of Whelen's LED lightbars are Class 1 compliant on their own. In ALL colors. By dimming only the inboards (the ones that really matter) as much as you'd like, you will still have a Class 1 compliant lightbar at 360 degrees. I guess if the four corners alone don't meet Class 1 then, that method simply won't work for ya.
Sigma Safety
Member
emtanderson51 said:
Wow. Ok, first -the older Legend corner reflectors ARE SAE J595 Class 1 in all colours. The reason FS changed them is to provide Class 1 in blue to the sides, not to 45 degrees. The new reflectors upgrade the corners to Class 1 in [<-- edit] Blue. By "corners" I actually mean that the side lighting is Class 1. I have numerous third party optical lab tests to support this.
Second, FS does make most of their equipment in the US. There are a few things that are made offshore, to FS's specs. Backup camera systems are one. I think the SMLED-Plus directional arrows are as well. The vast majority of their stuff is made in house though I think domes are outsourced to a US-based manufacturer. Don't believe the Whelen propaganda that their stuff is the only stuff made in the US - that's complete horsepoo.
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leftcoastmark said:
I have to agree, as for brightness, out city pd has justice bars, dont get me wrong, theyre extremely bright in all directions and every which way, plus theyre set to alternate simple all red left and all blue right, but our local rcmp has legend bars, and they were FAR more noticeably brighter